Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

[Da Speeit]

Pretty apparent to me he prefers having a useful sympathiser in power in neighbouring countries/territories.

I'd be more inclined to buy that he never had any intention of overthrowing the government if he hadn't already got lapdogs in multiple countries/territories.

I think it's incredibly naive to pretend he was solely worried about Russia's security.

He's not an idiot, he knew full well if the opportunity to overthrow Zelensky presented itself he'd have gone for it. There's no point commentators pretending otherwise.

You're better than that.

of course he does, who doesn't?

He doesn't want to outright overthrow Zelensky with the world watching. He wants an independent East to constantly undermine Zelensky and a written concession regarding NATO to undermine Zelensky's key manifesto goals, which would make him look weak. It's a big dick measuring contest being broadcast and filmed as a world war event and you guys are falling for it.

 

[SanchoMF]

Flex on NATO, consolidate Putin's image as a strongman domestically, empower the east (undermine Zelensky) and get Crimea NATO/EU Neutrality in writing (which would counter Zelenksy's campaign manifesto)

A costly flex.

 

[Da Speeit]

i have brought this up also. But Putin has never once public ally said he wants to install a new president. That all started because of a leak from a private call with Macron. Not even an official read out of the private call, just a leak that some aide said.

People are taking leaks or what Ukrainian intel operatives are saying as 100% fact.

It's insanity.

 

[Da Speeit]

Don't just lie about it, mate, that's absolutely not what happened.

There was an uprising, things got violent, and he fled.

Once he was safely in Russia, a vote was passed by the Ukrainian parliament to remove him as he could no longer perform his duties.

Those are facts, not painted by colourful language like 'coup'.

You're never going to convince people to change their minds if you don't stick to the easily accessible facts.

There was a violent uprising. That is a coup.
Prior to 3 weeks ago everyone in the western world recognized it was a 'Revolution' or 'Coup' now it's wrong to say it was.

You guys smh

Just come to terms with reality instead of trying to change the definitions or words to fit your emotions. He can be a bad guy and still be the subject of a coup. The coup could be just. There have been just coups and revolutions. That doesn't mean they're not coups and revolutions.

 

[Rational Poster]

Who did he kill?
Source?

 

[Da Speeit]

A costly flex.

This should be the alternate title to "Russia: A Complete History"

 

[Da Speeit]

That's what I thought.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

of course he does, who doesn't?

He doesn't want to outright overthrow Zelensky with the world watching. He wants an independent East to constantly undermine Zelensky and a written concession regarding NATO to undermine Zelensky's key manifesto goals, which would make him look weak. It's a big dick measuring contest being broadcast and filmed as a world war event and you guys are falling for it.

Again, there is no 'you guys', and we don't all think the same things.

We can see what's happening, and it's obvious Putin would have removed the Zelensky government had things gone as smoothly as initially expected.

It didn't, he hasn't, and now he can't do anything about Kyiv's governance short of 'accidentally' killing Zelensky.

Nobody is fooled about the grand objectives.

The totally separate argument you're having about people being fooled by propaganda is totally different to simply acknowledging that Putin wanted to 'denazify' Kyiv, which can ONLY mean terminating Zelensky's leadership.

 

[Joe_Armstrong]

I heard John Deer is doing record sales in Ukraine to haul all those tanks.

 

[A Lurker]

Flex on NATO, consolidate Putin's image as a strongman domestically, empower the east (undermine Zelensky) and get Crimea NATO/EU Neutrality in writing (which would counter Zelenksy's campaign manifesto)

Flex on NATO = failure on every level
Consolidate putins image domestically = jury’s out on that, long game might prove difficult
Empower the east = he sure has empowered them but not in the way he wanted
Get Crimea = Already had it
Neutrality = Jury’s out, depends on how this ends, lean positive

Not looking great

 

[Da Speeit]

Again, there is no 'you guys', and we don't all think the same things.

We can see what's happening, and it's obvious Putin would have removed the Zelensky government had things gone as smoothly as initially expected.

It didn't, he hasn't, and now he can't do anything about Kyiv's governance short of 'accidentally' killing Zelensky.

Nobody is fooled about the grand objectives.

The totally separate argument you're having about people being fooled by propaganda is totally different to simply acknowledging that Putin wanted to 'denazify' Kyiv, which can ONLY mean terminating Zelensky's leadership.

Based on what? Your opinion?

 

[Deleted member 585708]

There was a violent uprising. That is a coup.
Prior to 3 weeks ago everyone in the western world recognized it was a 'Revolution' or 'Coup' now it's wrong to say it was.

You guys smh

Just come to terms with reality instead of trying to change the definitions or words to fit your emotions. He can be a bad guy and still be the subject of a coup. The coup could be just. There have been just coups and revolutions. That doesn't mean they're not coups and revolutions.

No, a coup directly removes a government from power in an illegal fashion.

That's not what happened, but you can feel free to pretend it did, I don't really care how you classify it.

Everybody else can simply check the easily accessible facts and timelines which can't be defined as a coup, simple.

 

[The Diplomat]

Flex on NATO, consolidate Putin's image as a strongman domestically, empower the east (undermine Zelensky) and get Crimea NATO/EU Neutrality in writing (which would counter Zelenksy's campaign manifesto)

If those are the goals, then it's going very poorly for him.

 

[Rational Poster]

That's what I thought.

Yeah it's funny that you're this caught up in Russia's alternate reality but you don't want us to consider you a shill.

The entire event started because security forces were killing protestors. Over 100 died before he was forced from office.

The vote happened just a day after he left, but he didn't leave before they also voted to hold a special election to remove him.

They impeached him because he fled. And he fled because he was going to go to jail.

 

[Da Speeit]

Flex on NATO = failure on every level
Consolidate putins image domestically = jury’s out on that, long game might prove difficult
Empower the east = he sure has empowered them but not in the way he wanted
Get Crimea = Already had it
Neutrality = Jury’s out, depends on how this ends, lean positive

Not looking great

He's gotten NATO to cuck at almost every turn and have to resort to every means to stymie Russia. They already didn't want Ukraine in, and if he gest his way, it will be in writing that Ukraine will not pursue that.
He'll be gone in the long term, Vlad's getting old, this is his last push
There are 200,000+ Ukrainians in Russia waiting this out who will repopulate the East no matter the result who will be outwardly hostile to Ukraine, even more so than ever
It wasn't in writing
Same, probable.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Based on what? Your opinion?

You're trying to argue on all fronts again and missing basic information.

I'll let you do you, because you're not concentrating properly if you're missing what I'm saying about Putin's pointed classification of Zelensky as a Nazi. Yes, I know that's propaganda aimed at the Russian people, but you can't denazify nazis without denazifying them LMAO.

No need for the mental acrobatics.

 

[Da Speeit]

If those are the goals, then it's going very poorly for him.

Based on what? Some Guardian headline?

 

[GhostZ06]

Flex on NATO = failure on every level
Consolidate putins image domestically = jury’s out on that, long game might prove difficult
Empower the east = he sure has empowered them but not in the way he wanted
Get Crimea = Already had it
Neutrality = Jury’s out, depends on how this ends, lean positive

Not looking great

basically this

 

[Squarechoke]

A week ago the estimation was 7k which is what I said.
The floor is the bottom, bud. It was 7k a week ago. Now it's 3.

It was one estimation and your source said nothing about that estimation being changed, it just pointed to that there are other estimations, both lower and higher. Why are you trying to say that it says something it doesn't when the text is plain to see?

People that have paid attention have seen different estimations all the time so nothing has changed in that regard.

 

[A Lurker]

He's gotten NATO to cuck at almost every turn and have to resort to every means to stymie Russia.

What on earth are you talking about?