Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

[Cole train]

Ukrainian fascists bombing civilian centers of an independent nation smh

Ah givi haven't seen him a while since he's death

 

[GhostZ06]

Based on what? Tweets?
I like both of you and have found you both informative, but while Dexter has his bias, so do you and will routinely post things that have a sympathetic slant to Ukraine bc that's how you feel. It's your right, but I don't think the Ukrainian military is as effective or surgical as all the heavily edited, speculative tweets you post.
They couldn't flush out Donbas in 7 years.

They have spent years getting trained by nato and US military officals. It's pretty clear they are fighting on a western level of fighting

 

[SanchoMF]

I consider Donbas conflict tad bit heavier than Frances or uks adventures in Africa or middle east since separatists actually had tactical options and gear(drones tanks etc) unlike people in Mali or Afghanistan to my knowledge

But once again just my opinion no offence intended to anyone

(Going that far back to 1900s is a bit overkill lol)

Yeah maybe we keep it in the past 10 years <45>

 

[Darkballs]

"Western Estimates" change daily and mean fuck all.

Well the western figures line up with the damage and poor performance we've witnessed from the russian army over the past four weeks. The Russian figures, do not.

That and one of these entities (the west) has been a hell of a lot more accurate an honest that the russian state you are shilling for. I am impressed with your ability to immediately pivot from Russia lying about their intentions to invade, to insisting that these liars are suddenly speaking honestly about their performance.

There are zero "independent figures".

I could see a Russian arguing this.

 

[Rational Poster]

They have spent years getting trained by nato and US military officals. It's pretty clear they are fighting on a western level of fighting

They're also benefiting from US intel pretty obviously.

They're getting all the radar and satellite data, stolen comms, gps coordinates, etc.

Russian SEAD missions were basically pointless because Ukraine doesn't need their ground based radar to alert their AA forces.

 

[2gps125]

Yeah, Germany and Japan had no way to defend themselves.

That is ancient history; talking Iraq, Afghanistan or even the might Grenada.

 

[Da Speeit]

So if Putin DOESN'T want, and DIDN'T want, to overthrow the government in Kyiv, why was his reaction to the removal of Yanukovych, who wanted to put Ukraine in massive debt to Russia, met with the invasion of Crimea that same year?

If Putin doesn't care who runs Ukraine, why is he harbouring the former President of Ukraine in Russia, under military guard?

Why has he spoken so openly about denazifying Ukraine, whilst making no secret of the fact he considers Zelensky's government 'nazis'?

I think you might be engaging in what they call 'revisionism'.

Russia were paranoid that a freshwater port that could be used as an economic and militaristic hub was in jeopardy with the US-Backed coup. They already had a naval base there, after the coup they went in and made sure no one was taking it back through any avenue.
Why is Putin protecting one of his useful sympathizers? Is that a real question?

The "Denazifying" thing is just propaganda, you guys have to move on. It's old news and completely meaningless.

 

[Rational Poster]

Well the western figures line up with the damage and poor performance we've witnessed from the russian army over the past four weeks. The Russian figures, do not.

That and one of these entities (the west) has been a hell of a lot more accurate an honest that the russian state you are shilling for. I am impressed with your ability to immediately pivot from Russia lying about their intentions to invade, to insisting that these liars are suddenly speaking honestly about their performance.



I could see a Russian arguing this.

The idea of alternative facts or reality didn't come from Trump, but from the Neo-Eurasian fascist movement in Russia.

 

[Rational Poster]

Russia were paranoid that a freshwater port that could be used as an economic and militaristic hub was in jeopardy with the US-Backed coup. They already had a naval base there, after the coup they went in and made sure no one was taking it back through any avenue.
Why is Putin protecting one of his useful sympathizers? Is that a real question?

The "Denazifying" thing is just propaganda, you guys have to move on. It's old news and completely meaningless.

There was no coup stop it with this nonsense.

 

[Dexter]

When you start posting facts and stop making shit up.

Man, you acted all-salty while @Cole train perfectly understood my joke. Calm down a little bit .
https://www.newsweek.com/us-expects-kyiv-fall-days-ukraine-source-warns-encirclement-1682326

P.S. Jesus, I'm actually missing comrade @aries. At least, he kept doubting everything, not just posting random Tik-tok videos from Ukrainians.

 

[Da Speeit]

Well the western figures line up with the damage and poor performance we've witnessed from the russian army over the past four weeks. The Russian figures, do not.

That and one of these entities (the west) has been a hell of a lot more accurate an honest that the russian state you are shilling for. I am impressed with your ability to immediately pivot from Russia lying about their intentions to invade, to insisting that these liars are suddenly speaking honestly about their performance.



I could see a Russian arguing this.

lmao no it doesn't
Seeing a bunch of buned out ttanks, even HUNDREDS of them does not equate to 10,000 dead Russians. No fucking way. I've scoured the internet for footage of firefights and they're next to non-existent.

The "Western" estimates went from 7k to 3k in a week. Ukraine is claiming 15,000. Russia haven't updated their numbers in almost 3 weeks. So if Russia's numbers, last quoted at 500, are tripled, it's 1500. Let's say it's 2k. That's closer to 500 than 10 or 15k.

Stop getting played dude. Every time someone questions the ever-shifting propaganda from the west with common sense you guys go to the "RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA" Well.
You're being lied to by everyone. Russia, the US and ESPECIALLY Ukraine.

Use your own common sense. 10k Russians have not died. 15k Russians have not died. I would be surprised if it were 3. There are zero independent figures. Who is independent in this? India? They think the West's numbers are bullshit too.

 

[A Lurker]

Russia wanting or needing Kiev only exists if you're following the bullshit narrative that Putin wants to completely overthrow Ukraine, kill Zelensky, install a puppet and implement Ukraine into the Russian Empire. This is something that boomercon republicans, talking head democrats and a bunch of useful idiots on twitter, who all simp for the same fucking losers at the state department who were in basic/boot during the cold war and thought they were destined to overthrow russia used to jerk off to Red Dawn. There are people running intel in our country that already have come to specific conclusions and anything to the contrary can not be considered. There is only one answer; Putin is Hitler looking to destroy Europe and issue a "Final Solution" in Ukraine, bc reasons.

Nevermind that totally overthrowing Ukraine as an occupying force would be one of the most costly endeavors Russia could possibly entertain both financially and logistically, never mind that killing Zelensky would initiate an actual World War, nevermind that occupying the anti-Russian West would stretch Russia being comprehension. No. He wants Kiev, he wants all of Ukraine and his army has been stuck for weeks because they suck and he's a retard.

If every explanation always boils down to "My enemy has no clue what he's doing" you're probably getting fucking played and are too arrogant to see why or how. Look throughout history to every major power that thought a formidable enemy were "too dumb and inept" to accomplish their goals. Go ahead. It's not pretty. Athens lost a costly war to Sparta whom they dominated on a naval, civil and financial basis because they thought Spartans were idiots who couldn't adapt their warfare and were one-dimensional.

The amount of Hubris in the west is incredible. We should be treating this situation gingerly and making informed, fully-dimensional decisions, instead we're calling world powers stupid and assuming their tactics and intent for them, and addressing our imaginary movie-style diagnosis of the situation instead of what is actually happening.

You sound a bit emotional.

No matter how you slice it this invasion isn’t going great, it’s been nearly a month and progress is very slow.

 

[Da Speeit]

There was no coup stop it with this nonsense.

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2014/02/27/the-february-revolution
SMOULDERING fires, streets covered in soot, a smell of burned tyres; young men in military rags wandering around purposelessly. A heavy atmosphere of apprehension, anger and disbelief still sits on Independence Square, the gathering place in Kiev that has lent its name, Maidan, to the political protest movement born there, and thereby to the broader popular sentiment that supports it. Despite the toppling of Ukraine’s president, Viktor Yanukovych, there is no sense of triumph among the quiet tears and loud words. But there is an abiding power.

"It's not a coup, it's a revolution!"

 

[Da Speeit]

You sound a bit emotional.

No matter how you slice it this invasion isn’t going great, it’s been nearly a month and progress is very slow.

Yeah, i don't think they want to progress that far.

 

[Rational Poster]

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2014/02/27/the-february-revolution
SMOULDERING fires, streets covered in soot, a smell of burned tyres; young men in military rags wandering around purposelessly. A heavy atmosphere of apprehension, anger and disbelief still sits on Independence Square, the gathering place in Kiev that has lent its name, Maidan, to the political protest movement born there, and thereby to the broader popular sentiment that supports it. Despite the toppling of Ukraine’s president, Viktor Yanukovych, there is no sense of triumph among the quiet tears and loud words. But there is an abiding power.

"It's not a coup, it's a revolution!"

He was voted out of office because he started killing the protestors (unanimously). Clearly you don't know what a coup is.

 

[Da Speeit]

"Russia want to topple Ukraine completely. They want Zelensky dead. They have utterly stalled'
WHy?
"Because of something Putin said, but you can't trust anything he said because he's always lying"

 

[Darkballs]

lmao no it doesn't
Seeing a bunch of buned out ttanks, even HUNDREDS of them does not equate to 10,000 dead Russians. No fucking way.

Yes, a month long invasion that's stalled and failed to meet any of its objectives with countless reports of blown the fuck up russian hardware, does in fact correlate to large numbers of casualties.

And I get it kid. Your position is that anything negative of russia is biased, while the russian state media, fresh off from lying about the decision to invade less than a month ago, is now telling the truth. That isn't a nuanced position the rest of us fail to grasp. It's just stupid.

 

[Squarechoke]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/17/europe/russian-casualties-ukraine-military-readiness/index.html

That quote doesn't say that the estimate has changed, just that there are several estimates being made (3000-10000+ based on the quote), which has been the case all along.

 

[Da Speeit]

He was voted out of office. Clearly you don't know what a coup is.

The vote occurred after protestors overtook Kiev and the president fled the country to spare his life.

 

[A Lurker]

Yeah, i don't think they want to progress that far.

I suppose they wanted to lose a lot of hardware as well.

It’s a odd strategy.