Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

[Deleted member 555403]

That's not even remotely an argument. The sanctions themselves didn't destroy the water infrastructure, and when you say "hundreds of thousands died of children died over those years however you want to split it" that's just you refusing to present a reasonable argument and retreating into your own delusions.

no shit. a massive bombing campaign intentionally destroyed their water infrastructure

 

[Anewt]

Learn to read/speak english better. We are talking about pro russian sympathizers living in Lativa.

You threw me off with your north Koreans should just move lol

 

[b34stmode]

They already confirmed they were hacked. Numbers removed:
“On March 21, access to the administrator interface was hacked on the Komsomolskaya Pravda website and a fake stuffing was made into a publication about the situation around the special operation in Ukraine. Inaccurate information was immediately removed."

https://www.kp.ru/online/news/4672522/

“they were hacked” LMAO good one, that is peak clown world material.

Someone fucked up and posted the real numbers.

 

[brothir]

Mind giving me some better sources then mate?

Their birthrates have been declining since then. But that was a trend before the sanctions

6.04 births per woman in 1988
3.6 births per woman in 2019


Annual estimates indicated a rise in child mortality in the centre/south of the country from 59/1000 to 116/1000 between 1990 and 1991, rising again to 142/1000 by 1998.25 July 2017

Child mortality literally doubled at the same time as the sanctions. Almost tripled before the end of them.

But birthrates declining is a global phenomenon, and also (partially) irrelevant to the amount of children dying. It's not an argument. And you're just quoting bad numbers there: they are false. If you can find that weirdo website you quoted, how can't you find the most obvious sources for the debunking of such claims yourself?

 

[Anewt]

“they were hacked” LMAO good one, that is peak clown world material.

Someone fucked up and posted the real numbers.

Lol you think the Russians would be handing accurate numbers to news agencies?

Yeah sounds smart. Look here's the real numbers.. but I want you to use these ones instead...

 

[San Marino]

That’s fucking crazy that they don’t have enlisted ranks. Does the O1 take care of everything? Holy fuck! No wonder they are getting their asses kicked!

2nd time.
. Russian NCOs (army.mil)
This system had an unintended consequence for the strong NCO corps that the Soviets had inherited from the Tsarist Army (the Imperial Russian Army, 1721 - 1917). The two-year conscription model for the enlisted personnel had no real career path for those who desired to serve past their initial conscription length. The strong NCO corps that emerged after the WWII soon disappeared as these NCOs either left the service or became commissioned officers. In the Soviet Armed Forces, officers, not NCOs, became the primary small unit leaders and trainers.

Russia does not want well-rounded enlisted leaders, they want narrowly-focused, technically competent, professional, enlisted soldiers. Due to this very different system, Russian contract servicemen are probably more accurately described as "enlisted professionals" than “noncommissioned officers.”

 

[Bald1]

‘Snipers have been picking them off left and right’: Retired U.S. general explains why so many Russian generals are getting killed in Ukraine

"The latest death, reported Saturday by Ukrainian officials, was that of Andrei Mordvichev, who as a lieutenant-general was the highest-ranking of the Russian generals to have been killed so far.

The other issue may be the structure of Russia's armed forces, in which orders come down from commissioned officers, and—because there is a strategic focus on bombarding targets from afar—there is no non-commissioned officer (NCO) corps to facilitate more bottom-up decision-making on the ground.

"So, what happens? The column gets stopped. An impatient general is sitting back there in his armored or whatever vehicle. He goes forward to find out what’s going on because there’s no initiative," said Petraeus.

"Again, there’s no non-commissioned officer corps. There’s no sense of initiative at junior levels. They wait to be told what to do. So he gets up there. And the Ukrainians have very, very good snipers, and they have just been picking them off left and right."

‘Snipers have been picking them off left and right’: Retired U.S. general explains why so many Russian generals are getting killed in Ukraine (msn.com)

@San Marino said...

NCO's are the backbone of the U.S. military. Now we're seeing firsthand what happens when you don't have any NCO's. The Enlisted corps ARE the backbone.

This blew my mind the first time I read about it. No real clear line of command once the big wigs are taken out? I'm not a military man, but a "team" has to have a clear, easily adaptable and fluid chain of command if it's to remain operational. Seems a sign of insecurity not letting the next guy down on the ladder take charge if shit hits the fan. Paralyzation via indecision is a thing and usually worse than making no decision at all.

 

[b34stmode]

The 10k dead figure is pretty likely bullshit guys, only a week or so ago the official Russian figure was 900. Just because something is nice isn't enough reason to believe it.

there is PHYSICAL evidence of over 1600 vehicles being destroyed. You put 3 men per vehicle and you are at 4800 deaths easily. This doesn’t take into account any paratroopers or ground units.

 

[IDGETKTFO]

You threw me off with your north Koreans should just move lol

My bad, that was a trigger for Dexter when he wakes up.

 

[Anewt]

But birthrates declining is a global phenomenon, and also (partially) irrelevant to the amount of children dying. It's not an argument. And you're just quoting bad numbers there: they are false. If you can find that weirdo website you quoted, how can't you find the most obvious sources for the debunking of such claims yourself?

The child mortality doubling and trippling is from the debunking. Sure mightn't be 500k dead children. That I can agree with from what I've read. But rates of child mortality did triple in the course of the sanctions.

 

[brothir]

no shit. a massive bombing campaign intentionally destroyed their water infrastructure

That's false in regards to that being a permanent contribution to the lack of clean water. Iraq had more than enough money to replace that, and if Saddam decided against that he's complicit in any deaths thereof. The suggestion that this is relevant was claimed by one loony whose claims have been debunked.

 

[Anewt]

there is PHYSICAL evidence of over 1600 vehicles being destroyed. You put 3 men per vehicle and you are at 4800 deaths easily. This doesn’t take into account any paratroopers or ground units.

I thought a lot of vehicles had been abandoned?

 

[MMA Time Soldier]

no shit. a massive bombing campaign intentionally destroyed their water infrastructure

 

[brothir]

The child mortality doubling and trippling is from the debunking. Sure mightn't be 500k dead children. That I can agree with from what I've read. But rates of child mortality did triple in the course of the sanctions.

No, it's entirely false that the child mortality tripled. It barely rose at all in absolute terms, instead fluctuating between highs and lows around 50. The sanctions had next to no effect on mortality, and the entire thing is a fraud.

 

[lsa]

Don't forget Soros and the lizards.

That would be a great band name.

 

[Anewt]

No, it's entirely false that the child mortality tripled. It barely rose at all in absolute terms, instead fluctuating between highs and lows around 50. The sanctions had next to no effect on mortality, and the entire thing is a fraud.

Does seem shoddy from unicef and there's both sides claiming opposition points. So I'll take your points on board. Cheers for a rational discussion . Hard to find a non bias source on it sadly

 

[San Marino]

Behold, the Panzerfaust-3IT Anti-Tank gun Ukrainians are receiving from Germany.

Sweet!
German version of the RPG (Rocket-Propelled Grenade). Multiple shots, unlike the Javelin.

 

[b34stmode]

your not posting source's, proof or anything. Your just posting non-sense and derailing convo's to talk about neo nazi's

imagine that! Probably on a “special mission” directed by Poots himself.

 

[AndroidRage]

Roarrrr! Rage!!!!! Typical Soylib.

Blah blah blah. No one gives a shit what a fuck whit like you has to say shit for brains.

 

[Deleted member 555403]

That's false in regards to that being a permanent contribution to the lack of clean water. Iraq had more than enough money to replace that, and if Saddam decided against that he's complicit in any deaths thereof. The suggestion that this is relevant was claimed by one loony whose claims have been debunked.

there was on the ground contemporary reporting from respected western sources. Do you work for an NGO or is this just a weird tick of yours?

Fear at the end of the Basra road | Iraq | The Guardian