International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V15

[San Marino]

This area had been banned to visit due soil contamination.

Ah.

 

[syct23]

BTW interesting stuff is that Ukr had mandatory conscription service for 18-19 y.o guys during peacetime.
In 1979-1989 they had even busification for Afganistan service. Conscripts. Ofc busification was in rare cases and still had happened. Didn't had arrived in time according to paper issued? Busik...court.

Indeed,

I see the point they had at the time when they reversed the age limit. If they truly were fighting for their survival as a people, then yes use the elders and anyone else up. Save the future generations at all costs.

But now, Ukraine is coming up to that crossroads where if there truly is no agreement in sight and the US backs out, Zelensky will have to make that very unpopular decision…and then we truly find out, how much Ukrainians want to fight for their country.

Or, does the youth of Ukrainian stand down and stay away, only to survive displaced throughout the world.

 

[aerius]

It's called LOSING THE WAR just like @San Marino and I predicted it would happen. Russia won and NATO lost this proxy war.

The next proxy war that NATO will lose will be in Taiwan. See you there. Bye

Ukraine had one chance to secure a decent deal and that was at the end of their successful counter-offensive in summer & early fall of 2022. Once Russia got their industry going and sorted out their logistics it was game over for NATO since they don't have the production & logistics to keep up. NATO got drunk on its own narratives and forgot that peer/near-peer warfare is actually a war of factories & resources in addition to the shooting at the front lines, and now they will pay the price for their arrogance & stupidity.

 

[SandisLL]

Ukraine had one chance to secure a decent deal and that was at the end of their successful counter-offensive in summer & early fall of 2022. Once Russia got their industry going and sorted out their logistics it was game over for NATO since they don't have the production & logistics to keep up. NATO got drunk on its own narratives and forgot that peer/near-peer warfare is actually a war of factories & resources in addition to the shooting at the front lines, and now they will pay the price for their arrogance & stupidity.

NATO even didn't had any plan ...they just sometimes had supplied something when voters were concerned about refugees and dumb russian threats. A bit.

Ukraine might had best deal if in autumn 2021 th instead of crying that west doesn't sell them any heavy weaponry...had ordered from China, India, Pakistan etc and had told in open text that Kissinger was correct and west are not their friends.

 

[SandisLL]

Indeed,

I see the point they had at the time when they reversed the age limit. If they truly were fighting for their survival as a people, then yes use the elders and anyone else up. Save the future generations at all costs.

But now, Ukraine is coming up to that crossroads where if there truly is no agreement in sight and the US backs out, Zelensky will have to make that very unpopular decision…and then we truly find out, how much Ukrainians want to fight for their country.

Or, does the youth of Ukrainian stand down and stay away, only to survive displaced throughout the world.

They actually does have also 18 y.o volunteers....

However ofc part of population is drinking and partying in pubs, rich ppl kids usually are students or appeared ill....etc.

They recently had scandal because in one oblastj 49 prosecutors had recieved disability benefits ....they at least on paper appeared ill etc.

 

[syct23]

They actually does have also 18 y.o volunteers....

However ofc part of population is drinking and partying in pubs, rich ppl kids usually are students or appeared ill....etc.

They recently had scandal because in one oblastj 49 prosecutors had recieved disability benefits ....they at least on paper appeared ill etc.

I am aware of the 18yo volunteers,

Is it true that most are not really anywhere near the front lines, used more as labor and those who are good with drones?

An attempt to still keep the youth away from the front?

 

[Strychnine]

I don't think Russia wants the entirety of Ukraine. They might have thought about it and tried it but decided it would be too big of a task and cause entirely too much pushback from Europe and the United States. Russia still wants to work with Europe and the United States. Russia wants the Eastern portion of Ukraine, and they have that. They would like to see a regime change and that may still happen. I still think that that initial Northern attack into Ukraine (Kiev) was to cause a split in the Ukrainian forces and weaken the Eastern front. Russia achieved that. Had Trump been president, this conflict would have never started. Trump would have guaranteed Putin that Ukraine would not join NATO.

Nope, you're wrong.

Russia needs ALL of Ukraine as Russia itself doesn't have any naturally defensible borders. Remember "Operation Barbarossa?" The Wehrmacht just ROLLED across the flatland to within eyesight of the spires of the Kremlin.

Russia needs ALL of Ukraine and then they'll expand westward until they reach the mountain range in Poland.

 

[Strychnine]

France was never under Soviet control.
The Poles remember what it was like and that is why they don't want to get involved and go through that again.

I think they'll fight so that they WON'T go through that again.

 

[Strychnine]

Definitely.
This area had been banned to visit due soil contamination. They had digged trenches ... damn.

The Russians signed their own death warrants by digging there.

 

[SandisLL]

I am aware of the 18yo volunteers,

Is it true that most are not really anywhere near the front lines, used more as labor and those who are good with drones?

An attempt to still keep the youth away from the front?

Some are in trenches...even were 3 years ago.

With drones .. ofc if guy earlier was hobbyist then even maybe might repair drones etc....not only to use FPV as operator.
Some % of hobbyists as civies had used DIY drones, repaired etc...

Ukr also needs to have border guards, police etc....also for western border ofc.

There also were opinions that there they might be usable....before will get more training etc.

 

[Strychnine]

@IDGETKTFO

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Nope, you're wrong.

Russia needs ALL of Ukraine as Russia itself doesn't have any naturally defensible borders. Remember "Operation Barbarossa?" The Wehrmacht just ROLLED across the flatland to within eyesight of the spires of the Kremlin.

Russia needs ALL of Ukraine and then they'll expand westward until they reach the mountain range in Poland.

One weird thing i noticed about things that Trump said about UKR was that it needed elections and that Zalenski's numbers were way down...I dont believe that to be true but I thought why would Trump even be interested in something like that? Has Putin put the bug in Trump's ear that if an election was held he woud negotiate in some way?. Because fixing elections and getting a Russian puppet in power would al Putin would need to do to carry on the SMO in a different way.

 

[Strychnine]

One weird thing i noticed about things that Trump said about UKR was that it needed elections and that Zalenski's numbers were way down...I dont believe that to be true but I thought why would Trump even be interested in something like that? Has Putin put the bug in Trump's ear that if an election was held he woud negotiate in some way?. Because fixing elections and getting a Russian puppet in power would al Putin would need to do to carry on the SMO in a different way.

Russia has mastered disinformation warfare, case in point, it worked like gangbusters here in the U.S.A. Putin is drooling at the mouth for an election in Ukraine, so he'll be able to flood the zone with disinformation to get a puppet installed and call for a complete surrender and for Russia to annex Ukraine.

 

[Strychnine]

If you've always wondered what went on during this scene?

The traitor that Ukraine arrested is about to find out the hard way.

 

[San Marino]

Nope, you're wrong.

Russia needs ALL of Ukraine as Russia itself doesn't have any naturally defensible borders. Remember "Operation Barbarossa?" The Wehrmacht just ROLLED across the flatland to within eyesight of the spires of the Kremlin.

Russia needs ALL of Ukraine and then they'll expand westward until they reach the mountain range in Poland.

No, actually, I'm right.

What does naturally defensible borders have to do with anything when you have nuclear weapons? Russia does not want to expand westward. For what? If that was the case, why did it allow Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine to become independent countries? Why would they wait until 2022 to start a major invasion of Ukraine? Again, all of this has to do with NATO expansion to the East. The US promised the Soviets that NATO would not move 1" to the East if Gorbachev would allow the two Germanies to become one - 1990. The Soviets believed in this and allowed Germany to become one country. We Americans negated on that promise and moved NATO Eastward. We fucked Russia over with our promise.

In 1994, President Bill Clinton announced the Partnership for Peace and committed NATO to expanding into Central and Eastern Europe. The PfP was a way to increase cooperation between NATO and former Soviet states.

 

[Cid]

 

[Strychnine]

No, actually, I'm right.

What does naturally defensible borders have to do with anything when you have nuclear weapons? Russia does not want to expand westward. For what? If that was the case, why did it allow Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine to become independent countries? Why would they wait until 2022 to start a major invasion of Ukraine? Again, all of this has to do with NATO expansion to the East. The US promised the Soviets that NATO would not move 1" to the East if Gorbachev would allow the two Germanies to become one - 1990. The Soviets believed in this and allowed Germany to become one country. We Americans negated on that promise and moved NATO Eastward. We fucked Russia over with our promise.

In 1994, President Bill Clinton announced the Partnership for Peace and committed NATO to expanding into Central and Eastern Europe. The PfP was a way to increase cooperation between NATO and former Soviet states.

Russia was broke as a joke and they couldn't afford to go in and retake those newly formed countries by force. They saved up resources and thought that "Well since we took a little, we can take all of Ukraine now."

Russia was very calculated in this...

Too bad they were bad at math.

 

[San Marino]

Russia was broke as a joke and they couldn't afford to go in and retake those newly formed countries by force. They saved up resources and thought that "Well since we took a little, we can take all of Ukraine now."

Actually, 1994 was not the first time we (Americans and Europe) fucked Russia (Soviets) over.

Winston Churchill suggested a war against the Soviets should start on July 1, 1945 as part of his top-secret plan called "Operation Unthinkable," which he ordered shortly after the end of World War II in Europe in May 1945. Thankfully the US had the presence of mind to say no to this stupid British plan. WWII would not have been won without Soviet help.

Key points about Operation Unthinkable. Objective:
To attack the Soviet Union and push the Red Army back out of Eastern Europe.

 

[Strychnine]

Actually, 1994 was not the first time we (Americans and Europe) fucked Russia (Soviets) over.

Winston Churchill suggested a war against the Soviets should start on July 1, 1945 as part of his top-secret plan called "Operation Unthinkable," which he ordered shortly after the end of World War II in Europe in May 1945. Thankfully the US had the presence of mind to say no to this stupid British plan. WWII would not have been won without Soviet help.

Key points about Operation Unthinkable. Objective:
To attack the Soviet Union and push the Red Army back out of Eastern Europe.

Russia screwed Russia.

Same as it ever was.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Russia has mastered disinformation warfare, case in point, it worked like gangbusters here in the U.S.A. Putin is drooling at the mouth for an election in Ukraine, so he'll be able to flood the zone with disinformation to get a puppet installed and call for a complete surrender and for Russia to annex Ukraine.

Yes and that will be a soft way to take over UKR just like Chechnya , and what he has done with Georgia and is trying with Romania and any other country he can get his hands on.