International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V15

[BAM]

Putin dying would change the game, but he doesn't seem sick to me. Of course we can't count out that they've given him boosters before appearances

covid, or sprinkling plutonium flakes in his borsch, whatever is more painful. 50 years from now, when people are sifting through history, this cunt will be near the top of the list for most evil. His grave will be showered in piss, if he isn't dug up and tossed into something unnamed.

 

[Limbo Pete]

You can state 170k casualties but there is no way thats accurate. That reads like a kind of propaganda from our side. I don't read russian propaganda either by the way, but you can expect both these numbers to be off by a significant margin. If they only lost that many people, you wouldn't see them pulling 45 year olds off the street left and right. I bet its well over 300k by this point, maybe even more

I know Russian estimates are off, probably well over 500k, or 600k by this point. But with a population of over 140 million, this is an advantage to russia still despite their bullshiting

Do I think sinking a ship is a win? Yes, but its not going to win this war. They're being driven back, and have just lost yet another fortress city. Recruitment is getting even worse, and I think the overall weariness is sinking in further

The only big sway I can see, is direct foreign involvement. Which I dont think is achievable.


I want to be clear, to you and @Limbo Pete , that I do not in anyway support russia. But it doesn't benefit Ukraine to hold onto inaccurate concepts and propaganda

???

 

[SakurabasEar]

covid, or sprinkling plutonium flakes his borsch, whatever is more painful. 50 years from now, when people are sifting through history, this cunt will be near the top of the list for most evil . His grave will be showered in piss.

Part of his problem, and many other russians in the past, is that they don't even possess a mindset that is anything comparable to other leaders worldwide. The way they think, is like out of the freaking 13th century or something. I'm not a sherpsychologist, but imo the dude operates on a whole other wavelength mentally

 

[BAM]

Part of the his problem, and many other russians in the past, is that they don't even possess a mindset that is anything comparable to other leaders worldwide. They way they think, is like out of the freaking 13th century or something. I'm not a sherpsychologist, but imo the dude operates on a whole other wavelength mentally

nah, they're just fascists. People aren't used to looking at it without a veil, Russia doesn't care about the veil. All of his rhetoric, including the centuries-old stuff, is just fascism.

 

[PEB]

It took a lot but Fox reporters are starting to realize Trump is nuts but they don't know what to do.

 

[SakurabasEar]

It took a lot but Fox reporters are starting to realize Trump is nuts but they don't know what to do.

PEB did you put this in wrong thread?

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

This I agree with, and keep in mind I have no personal stake here. But this is just one of those realities of life

Boarders change through force and power. Thats how we got our borders.

The question is, how many people need to die and how much money should we burn before we can agree on these borders

The whole point is this is an illegal war and the world made rules so barbarians like Putin dont regularly invade other countries. He already has invaded Georgia, chechnia and UKR once before which the word stood by and took a knee.
It's easy to say it will "save lives" if we give putin what he wants and make him pinky promise not to d it again while all the people who gave their lives were in vain. Not to mention Putler will not stop until he get's all his annexed land back and seeing the massive loses it what it will take to get Avdiivka back it will be almost impossible.
And assuming you give Putler what he wants now do you really think he will not attack again and be a great neighbor? you surely cant be that naive...

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

just read Russia lost 2 CU 34's and 1 CU 35 around Avdiivka which is great considering Putler was all in there even though he had to know the risk of flying bombers over and over in same area. Hopefully that will slow them down a bit.

 

[SakurabasEar]

The whole point is this is an illegal war and the world made rules so barbarians like Putin dont regularly invade other countries. He already has invaded Georgia, chechnia and UKR once before which the word stood by and took a knee.
It's easy to say it will "save lives" if we give putin what he wants and make him pinky promise not to d it again while all the people who gave their lives were in vain. Not to mention Putler will not stop until he get's all his annexed land back and seeing the massive loses it what it will take to get Avdiivka back it will be almost impossible.
And assuming you give Putler what he wants now do you really think he will not attack again and be a great neighbor? you surely cant be that naive...

Giving him what he wants is not exactly optional if your are losing anyways. I stated before that in the case of Ukraine, stopping this current direct conflict could be advantageous if it means you could then take the time to bolster. And I think thats the best course of action for them, while they still have the means to do so

As for any future incursions, thats always going to be an issue, if you don't have another major power that will threaten them with anything besides failed sanctions

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Giving him what he wants is not exactly optional if your are losing anyways. I stated before that in the case of Ukraine, stopping this current direct conflict could be advantageous if it means you could then take the time to bolster. And I think thats the best course of action for them, while they still have the means to do so

As for any future incursions, thats always going to be an issue, if you don't have another major power that will threaten them with anything besides failed sanctions

It depends on what your definition of losing is. UKR has nothing to lose and are fighting for their freedom. Do you not see what is happening inside Russia? Their infrastructure is crumbling ,oil depots and other logistics are being hit on a regular basis. They are having problems getting things repaired as many workers have fled or sent to the front and it's getting worse everyday as he needs to keep the meatwall moving.
Putin's war machine is running at a high rpm and is unsustainable long term and the UKR people are willing to take a stand and fight so that future generations dont have to live under Putins boot.
I always find it interesting when outsiders call for a surrender when a country is willing to fight for freedom

 

[SakurabasEar]

It depends on what your definition of losing is. UKR has nothing to lose and are fighting for their freedom. Do you not see what is happening inside Russia? Their infrastructure is crumbling ,oil depots and other logistics are being hit on a regular basis. They are having problems getting things repaired as many workers have fled or sent to the front and it's getting worse everyday as he needs to keep the meatwall moving.
Putin's war machine is running at a high rpm and is unsustainable long term and the UKR people are willing to take a stand and fight so that future generations dont have to live under Putins boot.
I always find it interesting when outsiders call for a surrender when a country is willing to fight for freedom

I don't consider peace negotiation the same as surrender. There are challenges on both sides, thats true. But Ukraine's are much more detrimental.

Russia's economy is still growing steadily, and they've found new stable suppliers. Certainly, its never ideal to be involved in a major war, but they appear to be doing okay. Even the New York Times just admitted so.

So now I think Ukraine should look to negotiation. I'm sure both sides can keep warring for quite some time, but its pretty evident that Ukraine is not in a position to win back those regions and Putin has the upper hand long term if the conditions remain the same

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

I don't consider peace negotiation the same as surrender. There are challenges on both sides, thats true. But Ukraine's are much more detrimental.

Russia's economy is still growing steadily, and they've found new stable suppliers. Certainly, its never ideal to be involved in a major war, but they appear to be doing okay. Even the New York Times just admitted so.

So now I think Ukraine should look to negotiation. I'm sure both sides can keep warring for quite some time, but its pretty evident that Ukraine is not in a position to win back those regions and Putin has the upper hand long term if the conditions remain the same

The NYT has been anti UKR for some time and there is no negotiations with Putler you obviously dont know who he is. And I think you should research what is happening inside Russia a little better , Short term investing in your self works but long term it leads to trouble....its not rocket science.

 

[SakurabasEar]

The NYT has been anti UKR for some time and there is no negotiations with Putler you obviously dont know who he is. And I think you should research what is happening inside Russia a little better , Short term investing in your self works but long term it leads to trouble....its not rocket science.

I think your bias is getting in the way of an honest conversation

 

[Rod1]

covid, or sprinkling plutonium flakes in his borsch, whatever is more painful. 50 years from now, when people are sifting through history, this cunt will be near the top of the list for most evil. His grave will be showered in piss, if he isn't dug up and tossed into something unnamed.

Wouldn't be so sure, its been what? 70 years since Stalin kicked the bucket?

Stalin Monument Unveiled to Mark 80th Anniversary of Stalingrad Victory - The Moscow Times

A new monument to Soviet leader Josef Stalin was unveiled in the southern Russian city of Volgograd on Wednesday to mark the 80th anniversary of the Soviet victory in the battle of Stalingrad — as Volgograd was known until 1961 — a key turning point in World War II.

www.themoscowtimes.com

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

I think your bias is getting in the way of an honest conversation

Of course, but I dont think you are into the reality of the situation. The UKR people appreciate your concern but they would rather fight for future generations to live in freedom rather then to take a knee to Puter.

 

[Rod1]

I don't consider peace negotiation the same as surrender. There are challenges on both sides, thats true. But Ukraine's are much more detrimental.

Its a surrender if by negotiations you mean Russia gets whatever it wants and Ukraine gets shit.

Any sort of real, meaningful negotiations will start with Ukraine getting NATO guarantees and not "neutrality", Russia doesn't has any sort of trust to be able to make any peace negotiation meaningful.

 

[Rod1]

I haven't participated in this thread much, but I'll stick to my assessment that our support should be directed to facilitating peace and supporting the wounded and homeless, along with others.

The best way to facilitate peace is to arm Ukraine so much that Russia is willing to come to the table and negotiate in good faith.

Otherwise is just a surrender of Ukraine.

 

[SakurabasEar]

Its a surrender if by negotiations you mean Russia gets whatever it wants and Ukraine gets shit.

Any sort of real, meaningful negotiations will start with Ukraine getting NATO guarantees and not "neutrality", Russia doesn't has any sort of trust to be able to make any peace negotiation meaningful.

I would agree but you know the negotiations would break down with nato guarantees. Something like a ceasefire would have to work until putin kicks the bucket.

The best way to facilitate peace is to arm Ukraine so much that Russia is willing to come to the table and negotiate in good faith.

Otherwise is just a surrender of Ukraine.

Arm them is what we've been doing, but the logistics of training, medical care, and everything else that goes with that takes additional time and money. Thats why fighting at least needs a pause, so that Ukraine can catch it's breath and we can help them work these things out

 

[AWilder]

Negotiate a stop to the war

Putin made zero efforts to solve this diplomatically. You want to know why? "Give me your country and die" isn't exactly a position with a lot of room for compromise.

 

[SakurabasEar]

Putin made zero efforts to solve this diplomatically. You want to know why? "Give me your country and die" isn't exactly a position with a lot of room for compromise.

I'm not saying Putin is some understandable guy that we can rationalize with. Trade offs are going to have to be made, obviously. But no serious effort has been made by either side to halt this.

That's partially because some people are still living in la la land, and seriously think Ukraine can push Russia out anytime soon