International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V14

[Rational Poster]

Putin was an extremely pro western politic back in the day.

Who called Bush first after 9/11 happened ? Putin.

Do you know that the U.S. actually had a supply base in Russia for their Afghanistan operation ?

Putin wanted to be a part of the West and wanted Russia to become a part of EU and possibly NATO, but he was rejected and told to know his place, hence why the Munich speech in 2007 happened and things started to go downhill from there.

Putin didn't want to just join the EU, he wanted to join the EU and NATO without going through any of the application process so they told him to go scratch.

 

[Rod1]

Even if this conflict gets frozen as is, that would mean Russia will have annexed 20+% of Ukrainian territory,

And Ukraine will get the other 80% as opposed to no country which is what they would get if they surrender to Russia.

 

[Rod1]

Putin wanted to be a part of the West and wanted Russia to become a part of EU and possibly NATO, but he was rejected and told to know his place, hence why the Munich speech in 2007 happened and things started to go downhill from there.

Poor Russia always the victim.


"EU said we can't kill out political opponents, steal companies by murdering its legal representatives and poison foreign politicians, its their fault we are such a murderous, savage and aggressive nation".

 

[ViD]

Poor Russia always the victim.


"EU said we can't kill out political opponents, steal companies by murdering its legal representatives and poison foreign politicians, its their fault we are such a murderous, savage and aggressive nation".

Yeah, cut the bullshit, none of this was even reported by the West until Russia became “hostile” after 2008

 

[SandisLL]

Poor Russia always the victim.


"EU said we can't kill out political opponents, steal companies by murdering its legal representatives and poison foreign politicians, its their fault we are such a murderous, savage and aggressive nation".

There for Ukraine and ......will be essential ECB decision.
They might easily to provide these 60b and additionally 50b package and 1-5 b per month in top of this ....
Cos they are 3 rd largest financial empire in world.
While if UKr is telling them how much xxx b they should pay to restore Ukr ..........after war then this is different question and for such talks Ukr today have to pay with blood and life cos Huelensky and Yermak and Arestantovich are not in Frontline trenches where I think Putin and Huelensky together with David and Arestantovich and Yermak should be located in person like Putin too btw.

 

[Rod1]

Yeah, cut the bullshit, none of this was even reported by the West until Russia became “hostile” after 2008

What? how is this related to Russia wanting to join the EU and NATO on its own terms?

Russians are the biggest and loudest bitches in the world.


Try learning something from Turkey and Erdogarn, they said "fuck it, we don't need the EU" when they couldn't meet the prequisites instead of going full bitch mode.

 

[ViD]

Try learning something from Turkey and Erdogarn, they said "fuck it, we don't need the EU" when they couldn

Huh ? That’s what Russia has been doing for the last 10+ years

 

[Rod1]

Huh ? That’s what Russia has been doing for the last 10+ years

And that doesn't stops you from bitching and claiming Russia was shunned by the West.

Doesn't stops Putin from crying about NATO every chance he gets.

 

[ViD]

And that doesn't stops you from bitching and claiming Russia was shunned by the West.

Doesn't stops Putin from crying about NATO every chance he gets.

But it is true, Russia wanted to be a part of the western world.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Ukrainians have suffered massive loses and I don't really understand the point of continuing to lie about it.

 

[ViD]

Ukrainians have suffered massive loses and I don't really understand the point of continuing to lie about it.

The reason why they’re lying about it is that they’re entirely dependent on western money and weapons and they’re afraid the aid will cease if the West learns the Ukraine is losing.

 

[PEB]

Ahhh..... your rumour comes from " good sources ".

Rightio.

Odd to add a additional story that's not related to your rumour from " pretty good sources "..........

Carry on. I kind of miss the days where sources mattered itt before every tom dick and Harry with a Twitter or YouTube account became a " source"

2 days ago. Not ending there Norway may send equipment an manpower. They have F-16 an F-35 jets. They know Putin a lying piece of sh#t.

EDIT: They trained with Ukrainian soldiers an are like brothers to them. While US have a stick up their a$$es called MAGA.

 

[Rod1]

But it is true, Russia wanted to be a part of the western world.

No, it didn't, not the West as it is.

 

[Orgasmo]

Ukraine needs to mobilize another half a million to keep up the fight. Since they do not release casualty figures, it makes you wonder how much losses are they taking.

Ukraine’s military wants to mobilise up to 500,000 more troops to fight Russia’s invasion.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Tuesday that he has asked them to spell out their plans in detail on what is “a very sensitive matter” before deciding whether he grants their wish as the war approaches the two-year mark.

Such a major mobilisation would cost Ukraine around 500 billion hryvnias (£10.5 billion), Mr Zelensky said. Other aspects to be considered include whether troops currently on the front line would be rotated or allowed home leave after almost 22 months of full-scale war.

Ukrainian Ministry of Defence statistics say the Ukrainian army had nearly 800,000 troops in October. That does not include National Guard or other units. In total, one million Ukrainians are in uniform.

Zelenskiy considers Ukraine military’s request for 500,000 more troops | BreakingNews

Ukrainian Ministry of Defence statistics say the Ukrainian army had nearly 800,000 troops in October.

www.breakingnews.ie

Russia-Ukraine war live: Zelenskiy says army has asked for up to 500,000 more troops to be mobilised — as it happened

Ukraine’s president is speaking to the world’s media at an end-of-year press conference

www.theguardian.com

 

[The XL]

Ukraine needs to mobilize another half a million to keep up the fight. Since they do not release casualty figures, it makes you wonder how much losses are they taking.

Zelenskiy considers Ukraine military’s request for 500,000 more troops | BreakingNews

Ukrainian Ministry of Defence statistics say the Ukrainian army had nearly 800,000 troops in October.

www.breakingnews.ie

Russia-Ukraine war live: Zelenskiy says army has asked for up to 500,000 more troops to be mobilised — as it happened

Ukraine’s president is speaking to the world’s media at an end-of-year press conference

www.theguardian.com

They're obviously taking heavy losses. I have no doubt Russians are taking heavy losses as well. They have a much bigger population though. A whole lot of people's kids going into the wood chipper against their wills. Tragic, unquestionably the biggest human rights violation of this time.

 

[Orgasmo]

They're obviously taking heavy losses. I have no doubt Russians are taking heavy losses as well. They have a much bigger population though. A whole lot of people's kids going into the wood chipper against their wills. Tragic, unquestionably the biggest human rights violation of this time.

CIA says Russians suffered 315K killed and wounded, which I find plausible. Ukrainian figures are harder to come by since both Ukraine and NATO are very tight lipped about it. Asking for half a million men on top of those already drafted does indicate the number isn't small.

Russia has suffered dramatic casualties in Ukraine, U.S. intelligence says

Russia had 360,000 ground troops before the war and has suffered 315,000 killed and wounded since February 2022, according to newly declassified intel shared with Congress.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[The XL]

CIA says Russians suffered 315K killed and wounded, which I find plausible.

Russia has suffered dramatic casualties in Ukraine, U.S. intelligence says

Russia had 360,000 ground troops before the war and has suffered 315,000 killed and wounded since February 2022, according to newly declassified intel shared with Congress.

www.nbcnews.com

The killed to wounded ratio is generally 1:3 to 1:4.

If you take the Russian governments estimates, take the CIAs estimates, add them and divide them by two then you probably have an accurate number

 

[Denter]

And Ukraine will get the other 80% as opposed to no country which is what they would get if they surrender to Russia.

Even if this conflict gets frozen as is, that would mean Russia will have annexed 20+% of Ukrainian territory, destroyed Ukrainian infrastructure and Ukrainian military and mobilization capacity while also showing the entire East that they withstood the West that couldn’t defeat Russia with unprecedented sanctions and military support to Ukraine (that never happened before in history) while Russian economy, political system remained stable and Russian military production increased sevenfold.
Do you seriously think that bankrupt and destroyed Ukraine under Kiev control is a win for Ukraine ? Or do you seriously think the US and Europe will spend hundreds of billion dollars to rebuild Ukraine ?

If the war ended in the situation as it is right now, I'd call it a Pyrrhic victory for Ukraine if- and only if- they are admitted to the EU or EU-lite (some kind of probationary period with full membership later) and NATO, and if not NATO than a regional military alliance like Poland and the Baltics, sufficient to deter Russia.

If the war ended today without Ukraine joining those kind of organizations I'd call it a Pyrrhic Russian victory.

 

[Denter]

CIA says Russians suffered 315K killed and wounded, which I find plausible. Ukrainian figures are harder to come by since both Ukraine and NATO are very tight lipped about it. Asking for half a million men on top of those already drafted does indicate the number isn't small.

Russia has suffered dramatic casualties in Ukraine, U.S. intelligence says

Russia had 360,000 ground troops before the war and has suffered 315,000 killed and wounded since February 2022, according to newly declassified intel shared with Congress.

www.nbcnews.com

Yeah and 340k -when you include killed, wounded and captured- isn't that unreasonable. MediaZona has 40k confirmed obituaries from newspapers or social media, but that is rock bottom killed numbers, and presumably, there are KIA troops that don't get obits or have family or just live in very offline places. So if KIA for RU is 80k, triple that in wounded, and 5-10k prisoners, that number makes sense. Ukraine's losses are going to be catastrophic, but we don't even get good faith guesses out of our media on it.

 

[ferrisjso]

If the war ended in the situation as it is right now, I'd call it a Pyrrhic victory for Ukraine if- and only if- they are admitted to the EU or EU-lite (some kind of probationary period with full membership later) and NATO, and if not NATO than a regional military alliance like Poland and the Baltics, sufficient to deter Russia.

If the war ended today without Ukraine joining those kind of organizations I'd call it a Pyrrhic Russian victory.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the peace deal that Johnson tanked would only have seen them lose the Donbass opposed to the land bridge and any of Kharkov. Thus the war will result in Ukraine losing territory they would not have lost if they'd taken the deal. Making the war a defeat. The war would only be worth it(from the Ukranian perspective) if it's outcome was better than the deal.