International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V14

[Strychnine]

Ukrainian forces take out two Russian Su-34s in daring drone attack on Morozovsk airfield​

"According to Ukrainian sources citing enemy-provided data, the assault entailed 17 unidentified drones resulting in two Russian Su-34s being irreparably damaged and 10 others sustaining damage. Reportedly, the Russian anti-aircraft defense system Pantsir-S1 managed to shoot down seven drones, thus enabling ten unmanned aircraft to hit targets on the airfield."

MSN

 

[Denter]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the peace deal that Johnson tanked would only have seen them lose the Donbass opposed to the land bridge and any of Kharkov. Thus the war will result in Ukraine losing territory they would not have lost if they'd taken the deal. Making the war a defeat. The war would only be worth it(from the Ukranian perspective) if it's outcome was better than the deal.

Right, I think a major military alliance where they don't have to worry about future invasions is what their goal is over territory. However, there are extreme nationalist elements that probably will be enraged at any territorial concessions and any Ukrainian leader will have to be very careful. I still remember that video of Denis Kireev's lifeless body laying on the street in Kiev.

 

[PEB]

While I would love for this to happen, zero chance it will.

The UK isn't going to unilaterally send troops without the approval of all of NATO. Not happening.

I think there is more then a chance of it happening. Hearing from more then a few people. Russian bots will not like this news MAGA cannot stop Britain or Norway from acting in their best interests.

 

[PEB]

Trumpsters will not like this:

"

The UK and France reiterate that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine must end in failure as US aid falters​

1 of 7 |
French Foreign Minister Catherine Colonna, right, and Britain’s Foreign Secretary David Cameron address the media during a press conference in Paris, Tuesday, Dec. 19, 2023. Britain and France are reiterating their determination that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine must end in failure. (AP Photo/Christophe Ena)
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2 of 7 |
French Foreign Minister Catherine Colonna, right, and Britain’s Foreign Secretary David Cameron address the media during a press conference in Paris, Tuesday, Dec. 19, 2023. Britain and France are reiterating their determination that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine must end in failure. (AP Photo/Christophe Ena)
Read More

3 of 7 |
Britain’s Foreign Secretary David Cameron, left, addresses the media during a press conference with French Foreign Minister Catherine Colonna, in Paris, Tuesday, Dec. 19, 2023. Britain and France are reiterating their determination that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine must end in failure. (AP Photo/Christophe Ena)
Read More

4 of 7 |
French Foreign Minister Catherine Colonna, right, and Britain’s Foreign Secretary David Cameron shake hands after a press conference in Paris, Tuesday, Dec. 19, 2023. Britain and France are reiterating their determination that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine must end in failure. (AP Photo/Christophe Ena)
Read More

5 of 7 |
Britain’s Foreign Secretary David Cameron, left, addresses the media during a press conference with French Foreign Minister Catherine Colonna, in Paris, Tuesday, Dec. 19, 2023. Britain and France are reiterating their determination that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine must end in failure. (AP Photo/Christophe Ena)
Read More

6 of 7 |
Britain’s Foreign Secretary David Cameron, left, listens to French Foreign Minister Catherine Colonna as she addresses the media in Paris, Tuesday, Dec. 19, 2023. Britain and France are reiterating their determination that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine must end in failure. (AP Photo/Christophe Ena)
Read More

7 of 7 |
French Foreign Minister Catherine Colonna, left, and Britain’s Foreign Secretary David Cameron arrive for a press conference in Paris, Tuesday, Dec. 19, 2023. Britain and France are reiterating their determination that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine must end in failure. (AP Photo/Christophe Ena)
Read More

BY ALEX TURNBULL
Updated 10:49 AM EST, December 19, 2023
Share
PARIS (AP) — Britain and France reiterated their determination Tuesday that Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine ends in failure, with the U.K. foreign minister saying that Ukraine’s allies must better leverage their economic might to vastly outmatch Moscow’s war machine.
The renewed insistence from U.K. Foreign Secretary David Cameron and French counterpart Catherine Colonna that Russia can’t be rewarded for its aggression comes as wartime aid from Ukraine’s biggest single military backer — the United States — is faltering.
Cameron, speaking after talks with Colonna in Paris, said that if the economies of Ukraine’s Western partners are calculated together, “we outmatch the Russian economy by 25 to one or more.”"

 

[Strychnine]

 

[SandisLL]

Right, I think a major military alliance where they don't have to worry about future invasions is what their goal is over territory. However, there are extreme nationalist elements that probably will be enraged at any territorial concessions and any Ukrainian leader will have to be very careful. I still remember that video of Denis Kireev's lifeless body laying on the street in Kiev.

It is worthless.
Russia too does have extreme nationalists and starting with Putin himself.
' Ukraine isn't country and Ukrainians aren't nation. '
Then famous Lavrov in India told that ' Russia never had invaded any country ' and continued ' Ukraine is RUSSIA '

Putin in open text had told that Odessa is Russian city....


__
So any treaty will be only till next war in Ukraine.

____
Also Ukraine anyway doesn't have chances to be EU or NATO member due to Orban and xxx other reasons.....even IF Putin had agreed to allow this to happen.

______

 

[SandisLL]

BTW today Europe doesn't think about Ukraine ....
This shit in Red Sea is more important focus for them because it might impact supply routes via Suez canal.

Additionally EU/EEZ now are forced to spend more money in order to watch mosques and sinagogas due to hight terrorists attacks risk...
More than this, they does have high riots risk level....

 

[ferrisjso]

Right, I think a major military alliance where they don't have to worry about future invasions is what their goal is over territory. However, there are extreme nationalist elements that probably will be enraged at any territorial concessions and any Ukrainian leader will have to be very careful. I still remember that video of Denis Kireev's lifeless body laying on the street in Kiev.

Given the original deal was to remain neutral I feel Ukraine would have to give up most everything east of the Dneiper to make the Kremlin comftorable with that. If Russia is agreeing to let Ukraine into NATO that means the whole country is out of Russias orbit forever. Thats going to require a high price at the negotiating table. The Ukranian rhetoric about joining NATO made it so Russia is not going to be willing to take a compromise or kick the can down the road in any way.

With the pro Russian areas in Russia and opposition forces in western Ukraine having left the country the far right will control Ukraine for generations. Theres just no getting around that denazifiying Ukraine would require taking the whole country and occupying a large hostile population. Its not going to happen. Most everyone right now in Ukraine are "true believers" because everyone else left. Ukraines far right leaders will never say it but they are going to benefit immensely from Ukraine losing territory and losing this war(except Zelensky who will likely be killed hence why hes been acting like a pretentious little cunt for the last year) and it might be part of the reason they chose to enter it in the first place.

 

[AWilder]

Given the original deal was to remain neutral I feel Ukraine would have to give up most everything east of the Dneiper to make the Kremlin comftorable with that. If Russia is agreeing to let Ukraine into NATO that means the whole country is out of Russias orbit forever. Thats going to require a high price at the negotiating table. The Ukranian rhetoric about joining NATO made it so Russia is not going to be willing to take a compromise or kick the can down the road in any way.

With the pro Russian areas in Russia and opposition forces in western Ukraine having left the country the far right will control Ukraine for generations. Theres just no getting around that denazifiying Ukraine would require taking the whole country and occupying a large hostile population. Its not going to happen. Most everyone right now in Ukraine are "true believers" because everyone else left. Ukraines far right leaders will never say it but they are going to benefit immensely from Ukraine losing territory and losing this war(except Zelensky who will likely be killed hence why hes been acting like a pretentious little cunt for the last year) and it might be part of the reason they chose to enter it in the first place.

What's it like living in a basement fantasy world?

 

[Cole train]

Loos like the news about average age being 40 plus a while back was true.Also seems to be a corruption problem in recruitment process, guys paid or were able to pay their way out of draft.

all motivated who wanted to fight signed up early when war started but it has been mentioned many times

https://archive.is/zlJPK

Plenty of young guys left though but it seems recruitment process is messed up and there is a corruption problem in ukr military itself(though its not new info)

Like interviewed person is an electrical engineer who said he can be technician but you apperantly have to pay bribe to get that role hence grunt infantry at 47

 

[The XL]

Loos like the news about average age being 40 plus a while back was true.Also seems to be a corruption problem in recruitment process, guys paid or were able to pay their way out of draft.

all motivated who wanted to fight signed up early when war started but it has been mentioned many times

https://archive.is/zlJPK

Plenty of young guys left though but it seems recruitment process is messed up and there is a corruption problem in ukr military itself(though its not new info)

Like interviewed person is an electrical engineer who said he can be technician but you apperantly have to pay bribe to get that role hence grunt infantry at 47

Guess that whole thing about Ukrainian's wanting to fight was bullshit. No matter, they'll die for the glory of Zelensky and to weaken Russia for the West

 

[Limbo Pete]

Given the original deal was to remain neutral I feel Ukraine would have to give up most everything east of the Dneiper to make the Kremlin comftorable with that. If Russia is agreeing to let Ukraine into NATO that means the whole country is out of Russias orbit forever. Thats going to require a high price at the negotiating table. The Ukranian rhetoric about joining NATO made it so Russia is not going to be willing to take a compromise or kick the can down the road in any way.

With the pro Russian areas in Russia and opposition forces in western Ukraine having left the country the far right will control Ukraine for generations. Theres just no getting around that denazifiying Ukraine would require taking the whole country and occupying a large hostile population. Its not going to happen. Most everyone right now in Ukraine are "true believers" because everyone else left. Ukraines far right leaders will never say it but they are going to benefit immensely from Ukraine losing territory and losing this war(except Zelensky who will likely be killed hence why hes been acting like a pretentious little cunt for the last year) and it might be part of the reason they chose to enter it in the first place.

There is no point at which Ukraine can make the Kremlin "feel comfortable". This goes right to the core of your brain worm infestation. You see Russia as having an innate right to do things to Ukraine, as having some kind of imperialist debt they are owed for "comfort" and peace of mind, and that is complete apologist lunacy. Furthermore, comfort has nothing to do with it anyway. The Kremlin will only be "comfortable" when they have taken every single last drop of money and resource from Ukraine and used their control to exact leverage over the EU, various African regions, and the rest of the world at large. It's about taking as much as they can to have as much power over everyone else. This isn't about their safety or security, it's about a political "system" that is dictatorial mobster rule and only understands power relationships as a zero sum game. You are a grub and a gross imperialist apologist wind bag.

 

[Limbo Pete]

What's it like living in a basement fantasy world?

He has his model trains to keep him company

 

[aerius]

Guess that whole thing about Ukrainian's wanting to fight was bullshit. No matter, they'll die for the glory of Zelensky and to weaken Russia for the West

We're gonna find out sooner or later that most of the Western claims about the Ukraine & Russia are just as bullshit as the ones about covid.

 

[Denter]

What's it like living in a basement fantasy world?

I think he's right that Russia has neither the ability or will to occupy anything west of the Dneipr, or even some stuff east of it.

 

[SandisLL]

Loos like the news about average age being 40 plus a while back was true.Also seems to be a corruption problem in recruitment process, guys paid or were able to pay their way out of draft.

all motivated who wanted to fight signed up early when war started but it has been mentioned many times

https://archive.is/zlJPK

Plenty of young guys left though but it seems recruitment process is messed up and there is a corruption problem in ukr military itself(though its not new info)

Like interviewed person is an electrical engineer who said he can be technician but you apperantly have to pay bribe to get that role hence grunt infantry at 47

I think the same is in Russia too....

 

[SandisLL]

Most interesting case ( not about Ukraine) I might tell and this is about guy who had applied for military service ( not Ukraine ,) in peacetime ....

They had used lad as training tool for h2h where he too was usable. In special tasks forces unit.
Until admiral had get that guy is electrician with diploma and cert plus with associate degree in radiolelectronic field.....
Admiral had ordered to use him in role suitable for his education.......

 

[SandisLL]

I think he's right that Russia has neither the ability or will to occupy anything west of the Dneipr, or even some stuff east of it.

Odessa us Russian city. According to Putin and Co......

And this stuff isn't about EU or NATO. It is older stuff than U.S ever had existed....
Kiev had founded Moscow and muscowites institution. After this muscowites appeared more successful and their aim always was to subjugate real Russia.....Kiev empire ....
Nothing had changed here. Especially because they aren't real Russians at all but fake one nationality in their core.....

 

[ferrisjso]

There is no point at which Ukraine can make the Kremlin "feel comfortable". This goes right to the core of your brain worm infestation. You see Russia as having an innate right to do things to Ukraine, as having some kind of imperialist debt they are owed for "comfort" and peace of mind, and that is complete apologist lunacy. Furthermore, comfort has nothing to do with it anyway. The Kremlin will only be "comfortable" when they have taken every single last drop of money and resource from Ukraine and used their control to exact leverage over the EU, various African regions, and the rest of the world at large. It's about taking as much as they can to have as much power over everyone else. This isn't about their safety or security, it's about a political "system" that is dictatorial mobster rule and only understands power relationships as a zero sum game. You are a grub and a gross imperialist apologist wind bag.

You know Ukraines cooked when you're writing complete sentences. I didn't know you had it in you. Good for you.

 

[Cid]

You know Ukraines cooked when you're writing complete sentences. I didn't know you had it in you. Good for you.

It's called a paragraph Mr Historian. You'll understand grade school grammar eventually though bro. I have faith in you.