International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V14

[Limeade]

Russian warship sunk in port.

Anyone post about this yet? How much equipment do you think was on board and will it impact the ability to resupply Crimea?

 

[Rational Poster]

Russian warship sunk in port.

Anyone post about this yet? How much equipment do you think was on board and will it impact the ability to resupply Crimea?

I don't think anyone but Russia knows the value what was destroyed but at the rate Russian warships are sinking, Russia is expending hundreds of thousands of lives just making themselves a land bridge to a fishing village.

What good are military installations at Sevastopol when you don't have a navy?

At this point it seems like they've lost nearly the entire series of these military transports.

 

[GhostZ06]

if not now, soon.

i don't think so, if so they may be operating behind nato lines.


I think its a tiny bit early. i mean maybe?

There are rumors that some aim-120D's may or may not have been shipped.

 

[Hog-train]

Looks like we're at a tipping point where Ukraine could lose this war unless the West does more. Russia is now a wartime economy and will be able to produce more of their weapons going into next year. Unless Europe and the US really commits and help drastically more, Ukraine will not be able to win.

All the stupid ass people in the US fooled by propaganda to say "We should be spending the money here and not in Ukraine" are fucking retarded and have no idea WTF they're talking about. As @AWilder posted, the military aid we're giving them is primarily coming from our old stocks - much of which need to be recycled anyway.

The US literally has thousands of Abrams tanks in storage and we gave 30. We can help a lot more and should because it is 100% in our self interest.

We already gave a commitment to help as long as it takes and now we're waffling. What does that tell the entire world and our allies?

It'll allow Putin to say the US is not a reliable ally and that he won. He will win re-election easily and declare victory over the big bad US.

And our allies that rely on our nuclear umbrella like Japan and South Korea are much more likely to arm themselves with nukes - which they can do so pretty easily.

The US and UK gave a commitment to Ukraine that we'd not let them lose their sovereignty if they gave up their nukes. That it'll prevent this EXACT scenario. Then we're just going to waffle and let it happen? When it was in our power to stop it? That's pathetic.

What Happens if Putin Wins

‘We’ll Be at Each Others’ Throats’: Fiona Hill on What Happens If Putin Wins

The veteran Russia watcher is deeply alarmed as Washington reaches an inflection point on the war in Ukraine.

www.politico.com

 

[aerius]

Russian warship sunk in port.

Anyone post about this yet? How much equipment do you think was on board and will it impact the ability to resupply Crimea?

No one knows what was onboard other than the Russians. In terms of impact on resupply, it's marginal. The vast majority of Russian supplies in the region are moved by rail, same as the rest of Russia. It's a nice morale & PR boost for the Ukrainians and another hit for the Russians, but in the big picture it has minimal effect on the war effort. Those missiles would've made a much bigger dent on logistics if they were fired at Russian railway terminals, but you don't get the same PR boost from blowing up one of those that you get from blowing up a landing ship.

 

[GhostZ06]

 

[PEB]

what blockade?

Sullivan is referring to Congressional representatives holding up any money tied to Israel an Ukraine. Biden proposed building walls an Congressional representatives raise the Bae. They are just there to hold up any Ukraine aid.

 

[Strychnine]

 

[Strychnine]

Estonian Chad checking in.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Looks like we're at a tipping point where Ukraine could lose this war unless the West does more. Russia is now a wartime economy and will be able to produce more of their weapons going into next year. Unless Europe and the US really commits and help drastically more, Ukraine will not be able to win.

All the stupid ass people in the US fooled by propaganda to say "We should be spending the money here and not in Ukraine" are fucking retarded and have no idea WTF they're talking about. As @AWilder posted, the military aid we're giving them is primarily coming from our old stocks - much of which need to be recycled anyway.

The US literally has thousands of Abrams tanks in storage and we gave 30. We can help a lot more and should because it is 100% in our self interest.

We already gave a commitment to help as long as it takes and now we're waffling. What does that tell the entire world and our allies?

It'll allow Putin to say the US is not a reliable ally and that he won. He will win re-election easily and declare victory over the big bad US.

And our allies that rely on our nuclear umbrella like Japan and South Korea are much more likely to arm themselves with nukes - which they can do so pretty easily.

The US and UK gave a commitment to Ukraine that we'd not let them lose their sovereignty if they gave up their nukes. That it'll prevent this EXACT scenario. Then we're just going to waffle and let it happen? When it was in our power to stop it? That's pathetic.

What Happens if Putin Wins

‘We’ll Be at Each Others’ Throats’: Fiona Hill on What Happens If Putin Wins

The veteran Russia watcher is deeply alarmed as Washington reaches an inflection point on the war in Ukraine.

www.politico.com

Fine, we can give them some old gear, have at it. We don't need to be sending tens of billions to fund their pensions and salaries. Government should be providing necessities, and salaries and pensions can be put on halt. Or are they not in a dire war for their country? We don't need to be funding their vacations.

 

[Barteh]

Looks like we're at a tipping point where Ukraine could lose this war unless the West does more. Russia is now a wartime economy and will be able to produce more of their weapons going into next year. Unless Europe and the US really commits and help drastically more, Ukraine will not be able to win.

All the stupid ass people in the US fooled by propaganda to say "We should be spending the money here and not in Ukraine" are fucking retarded and have no idea WTF they're talking about. As @AWilder posted, the military aid we're giving them is primarily coming from our old stocks - much of which need to be recycled anyway.

The US literally has thousands of Abrams tanks in storage and we gave 30. We can help a lot more and should because it is 100% in our self interest.

We already gave a commitment to help as long as it takes and now we're waffling. What does that tell the entire world and our allies?

It'll allow Putin to say the US is not a reliable ally and that he won. He will win re-election easily and declare victory over the big bad US.

And our allies that rely on our nuclear umbrella like Japan and South Korea are much more likely to arm themselves with nukes - which they can do so pretty easily.

The US and UK gave a commitment to Ukraine that we'd not let them lose their sovereignty if they gave up their nukes. That it'll prevent this EXACT scenario. Then we're just going to waffle and let it happen? When it was in our power to stop it? That's pathetic.

What Happens if Putin Wins

‘We’ll Be at Each Others’ Throats’: Fiona Hill on What Happens If Putin Wins

The veteran Russia watcher is deeply alarmed as Washington reaches an inflection point on the war in Ukraine.

www.politico.com

Why is it in the US best interest to help Ukraine? You're just bleeding money at this point.

 

[Limeade]

Why is it in the US best interest to help Ukraine? You're just bleeding money at this point.

Because we care about the post war international order and rules based system. You can't just erase a country or annex parts of it, there are better ways of settling disputes.

I don't favor foreign adventures but we have an interest in preserving thr status quo and American leadership on international affairs which had been a good influence overall since WW2.

 

[Anewt]

Looks like we're at a tipping point where Ukraine could lose this war unless the West does more. Russia is now a wartime economy and will be able to produce more of their weapons going into next year. Unless Europe and the US really commits and help drastically more, Ukraine will not be able to win.

All the stupid ass people in the US fooled by propaganda to say "We should be spending the money here and not in Ukraine" are fucking retarded and have no idea WTF they're talking about. As @AWilder posted, the military aid we're giving them is primarily coming from our old stocks - much of which need to be recycled anyway.

The US literally has thousands of Abrams tanks in storage and we gave 30. We can help a lot more and should because it is 100% in our self interest.

We already gave a commitment to help as long as it takes and now we're waffling. What does that tell the entire world and our allies?

It'll allow Putin to say the US is not a reliable ally and that he won. He will win re-election easily and declare victory over the big bad US.

And our allies that rely on our nuclear umbrella like Japan and South Korea are much more likely to arm themselves with nukes - which they can do so pretty easily.

The US and UK gave a commitment to Ukraine that we'd not let them lose their sovereignty if they gave up their nukes. That it'll prevent this EXACT scenario. Then we're just going to waffle and let it happen? When it was in our power to stop it? That's pathetic.

What Happens if Putin Wins

‘We’ll Be at Each Others’ Throats’: Fiona Hill on What Happens If Putin Wins

The veteran Russia watcher is deeply alarmed as Washington reaches an inflection point on the war in Ukraine.

www.politico.com

Sorry mate. The goal has never been for Ukraine to win. The longer Russia is forced into the grind the more successful it is for usa.

 

[Hog-train]

Why is it in the US best interest to help Ukraine? You're just bleeding money at this point.

1. We're not bleeding money. We're mostly giving weapons and ammo from storage.
2. Russia has also been messing other countries like Georgia and Moldova. And has stated in the past their willingness to "protect" the Russian speaking people in the Baltic countries. Those countries are part of NATO and then we'd need to get militarily involved.
3. China will be emboldened by our tepid response and act accordingly. They're already been acting really aggressively against their neighbors in the South China Sea and Taiwan. Make no mistake, China is watching this situation closely.
4. A weak response by us will lead to an arms race around the world including nukes.
5. Because we made a commitment already to Ukraine years ago that if they gave up nukes, we'd make sure they weren't invaded.

Sorry mate. The goal has never been for Ukraine to win. The longer Russia is forced into the grind the more successful it is for usa.

If Russia ends up keeping the territory they have, they won. Doesn't matter how many Russians died.

 

[Anewt]

If Russia ends up keeping the territory they have, they won. Doesn't matter how many Russians died.

Indeed. But Russia keeping what they have now also means usa " didn't lose "

No matter the outcome on the ground all parties will claim " victory "

 

[Cole train]

Why is it in the US best interest to help Ukraine after this? You're just bleeding money at this point.

Basically thanks to this conflict russia wont be a major player for a while since professional part of military will have to be rebuild,the professional Day 1 soldiers are gone

Very beneficial for usa (and other countries) since it limits russias ability to run around world the more casualties they take.

Like as an example now would be a good chance for french to deal with wagner in africa if macron would have some spine (which he doesnt)

Just my 2 cents

 

[PEB]

 

[PEB]

 

[Rational Poster]

Basically thanks to this conflict russia wont be a major player for a while since professional part of military will have to be rebuild,the professional Day 1 soldiers are gone

Very beneficial for usa (and other countries) since it limits russias ability to run around world the more casualties they take.

Like as an example now would be a good chance for french to deal with wagner in africa if macron would have some spine (which he doesnt)

Just my 2 cents

I think this is a bit of focus on the trees instead of the forest. I think @Limeade is more spot on with that assessment.

Sure completely destroying the standing Russian military is going to be beneficial to anyone who might encounter them for the short term, but long term if Russia just gets away with this and gets everything they want, it's basically signaling to the entire world that imperialism by conquest is still a thing worth doing if you don't give a shit about your people's lives.

 

[AWilder]

jesus. Asking for evac when every single vehicle you came in with didn't even make it to the planned dismount point