International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V14

[LangfordBarrow]

Meh you think after taking on a few regional countries like Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia they'll attack the NATO head on? I highly doubt it.

It doesn't have to be a NATO country. It's all their old Soviet satellite states that will either have a puppet government installed or be invaded.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

this is such a terrible argument no offense. with the money you spent on Ukraine, you could have done SO much to help your own country. Ukraine is a money dump scam to enrich the military industrial complex while the american sheeple celebrate while being robbed. If you really cared you would send enough to change the outcome of the war. You're just prolonging the war so you can "help rebuild". billions of dollars in construction contracts and military contracts on the horizon, if Ukraine isn't wiped out.

We basically used aid to buy our old weapons that were pending retirement and sent them to combat Putin's imperialist designs.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

So whenever they talk about a military aid package of x amount of billions being approved the number is pretty much bullshit, or is there any meaning to it at all besides old equipment cost?

They are buying our weapons with most of the aid we're giving them.

 

[DEVILsSON]

Russian mass surrender in Zaporizhzhya sector after inhumane treatment and heavy losses

A second group of Russian occupiers from the 71st regiment of the Russian Armed Forces surrendered on the Zaporizhzhya front, reporting mistreatment by the Russian command and significant losses, OC West Telegram channel reported on Dec. 27.

www.yahoo.com

Russian mass surrender in Zaporizhzhya sector after inhumane treatment and heavy losses​

Spoiler

Russian mass surrender in Zaporizhzhya sector after inhumane treatment and heavy losses​

The New Voice of Ukraine
Wed, December 27, 2023 at 8:29 AM PST·1 min read
947

Russian military
A second group of Russian occupiers from the 71st regiment of the Russian Armed Forces surrendered on the Zaporizhzhya front, reporting mistreatment by the Russian command and significant losses, OC West Telegram channel reported on Dec. 27.
Russian military personnel spoke out about the “inhumane treatment” by the Russian command and significant losses. The prisoners claim that the command deploys groups of recently mobilized and untrained soldiers, along with those who have signed contracts, for daily assaults, according to the OC West report.
Read also: Russia sends injured soldiers from hospitals to front lines — video
Commanders of the 71st regiment are accused of deploying groups of recently mobilized and unprepared soldiers, including those under contract, for daily storming operations. Prior to deployment, commanders allegedly mislead soldiers about their proximity to the front line, resulting in a lack of essential supplies and prompting surrenders, the OC West said.
The Russian command reportedly compelled soldiers from the 71st regiment to pre-record New Year greetings before storming operations, possibly to conceal losses from the Russian public.
Read also: US claims Russia is executing troops who disobey orders amid Donbas battlefield failures
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said on Dec. 19 that the exchange of prisoners of war between Ukraine and Russia has slowed down due to “very specific reasons” on the Russian side, suggesting potential diplomatic challenges.

 

[DEVILsSON]

"I got crippled in Ukraine and all I got was this bag of onions and carrots" bumper sticker....

Instead of $32,000, crippled Russian soldier given two buckets of carrots, onions — photo​

Instead of $32,000, crippled Russian soldier given two buckets of carrots, onions — photo

A Russian soldier from Volgograd Oblast, who was seriously injured fighting against Ukraine, has been compensated by local authorities with kilograms of vegetables, the Telegram news channel iStories reported on Dec. 26.

english.nv.ua

Spoiler

Instead of $32,000, crippled Russian soldier given two buckets of carrots, onions — photo​

December 26, 2023, 04:35 AM

A Russian soldier, who was seriously injured in the war against Ukraine, was compensated by local authorities in the form of vegetables (Photoointmedia.io)
A Russian soldier from Volgograd Oblast, whowas seriously injured fighting against Ukraine, has been compensated by localauthorities with kilograms of vegetables, the Telegram news channel iStoriesreported on Dec. 26.
Oleg Rybkin, 45-years-old, was mobilized on Sept. 25, 2022 and found himself near the village of Robotyne, Zaporizhzhya Oblast, just as the Ukrainian Armed Forces liberated the settlement.


Read also:
CNN reports evidence Russian troops in Ukraine may be fueled by drugs in grueling battles
He sustained injuries to his abdomen, liver, kidneys, and legs during the following battle.
"He has severe pain, his knee does not bend, and he cannot walk without crutches. He is on painkillers and sleeping pills," his wife said.

Photo: pointmedia.io
Rybkin reportedly needs to have his knee joint replaced but the authorities are not interested in helping him.


Read also:
Former Russian soldier ready to testify about Russian crimes in Ukraine
Indeed, Rybkin was supposed to be entitled to compensation worth 3 million rubles (approximately $32,000) and receive a life pension.
However the only "help" that he and his family received was two buckets of carrots and a bag of onions.

Photo: pointmedia.io
"I was at work, they brought it to my mother-in-law," Rybak’s wide said.
“Local farmers — those who grow it here — are obliged by the administration to ‘help’ (in quotation marks).”


Read also:
Photos show remains of Russian IFV carrying dummy soldiers, revealing new deception tactics used
However, she was actually lucky, as the residents of Rostov Oblast only received a brick with an ante-mortem message instead of their son, who died in Ukraine.

Photo: pointmedia.io

 

[DEVILsSON]

I take it that if confirmed this is a clear cut war crime?

Russian military executed three Ukrainian POWs from 82nd Air Assault Brigade, Air Force confirms​

Russian military executes Ukrainian POWs near Robotyne, investigation initiated

Russian forces executed Ukrainian prisoners of war near Robotyne in Zaporizhzhya Oblast in December, leading to Ukraine’s Prosecutor General’s Office launching an investigation.

www.yahoo.com

Spoiler

Russian military executed three Ukrainian POWs from 82nd Air Assault Brigade, Air Force confirms​

The New Voice of Ukraine
Thu, December 28, 2023 at 8:30 AM PST·1 min read
12

Russian occupiers shot dead three Ukrainian prisoners of war from the 82nd Separate Ais Assault Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
The Ukrainian Air Force has confirmed that Russian forces shot dead three Ukrainian prisoners of war from the 82nd Separate Air Assault Brigade near Robotyne, according to a press release on Dec. 28.
“Unidentified Russian soldiers intentionally violated the laws and customs of war while positioned on the line of combat contact in one of the districts of Zaporizhzhya Oblast,” the Air Force said.
Read also: Russian agents nabbed in Zaporizhzhya after directing missile attack on high-rise apartments
“The Russian military violated Article 3 of the Geneva Convention on the Treatment of Prisoners of War, as well as other norms of international humanitarian law, by deliberately killing people who are protected in the event of an armed conflict.”
The Russians’ crime has been entered into the register of pre-trial investigations and the case materials will be submitted to the International Criminal Court at the Hague.
Read also: ‘Worse than in Bakhmut’ – Danilov on destruction of Maryinka
"Sooner or later, Russian war criminals will be held accountable for their atrocities before the International Criminal Tribunal,” the Air Force said.
“Truth is on our side. We will not be broken! We will avenge every Ukrainian, for every piece of land that terrorist Russia has brought grief to. The enemy will be punished."
The POWs were likely shot by the Russian 76th Air Assault Division based in Pskov, war crimes investigator Yurii Belousov reported on Dec. 28.
The 76th Air Assault Division, also known as the Pskov Landing Division, has participated in the war against Ukraine since 2014, and after the full-scale invasion in 2022, the unit took part in the occupation of Kyiv Oblast and committed numerous atrocities against civilians in Bucha.

 

[Barteh]

It doesn't have to be a NATO country. It's all their old Soviet satellite states that will either have a puppet government installed or be invaded.

My point is still, why is any of that our concern? Maybe it would be if western countries weren't dealing with crippled economies, trillions of debt, immigration crises and all kinds of other shit at home.

I view this as kind of a Mavlov's pyramid for countries. Aiding others is very close to the top of the pyramid and all these other things that haven't been taken care of are way closer to the bottom.

They are buying our weapons with most of the aid we're giving them.

Interesting. I'm gonna have to do some more research on this before forming a better opinion.

 

[PEB]

Why is it in the US best interest to help Ukraine? You're just bleeding money at this point.

What you suppose your hero Putin doing?

 

[PEB]

I take it that if confirmed this is a clear cut war crime?

Russian military executed three Ukrainian POWs from 82nd Air Assault Brigade, Air Force confirms​

Russian military executes Ukrainian POWs near Robotyne, investigation initiated

Russian forces executed Ukrainian prisoners of war near Robotyne in Zaporizhzhya Oblast in December, leading to Ukraine’s Prosecutor General’s Office launching an investigation.

www.yahoo.com

Spoiler

Russian military executed three Ukrainian POWs from 82nd Air Assault Brigade, Air Force confirms​

The New Voice of Ukraine
Thu, December 28, 2023 at 8:30 AM PST·1 min read
12

Russian occupiers shot dead three Ukrainian prisoners of war from the 82nd Separate Ais Assault Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
The Ukrainian Air Force has confirmed that Russian forces shot dead three Ukrainian prisoners of war from the 82nd Separate Air Assault Brigade near Robotyne, according to a press release on Dec. 28.
“Unidentified Russian soldiers intentionally violated the laws and customs of war while positioned on the line of combat contact in one of the districts of Zaporizhzhya Oblast,” the Air Force said.
Read also: Russian agents nabbed in Zaporizhzhya after directing missile attack on high-rise apartments
“The Russian military violated Article 3 of the Geneva Convention on the Treatment of Prisoners of War, as well as other norms of international humanitarian law, by deliberately killing people who are protected in the event of an armed conflict.”
The Russians’ crime has been entered into the register of pre-trial investigations and the case materials will be submitted to the International Criminal Court at the Hague.
Read also: ‘Worse than in Bakhmut’ – Danilov on destruction of Maryinka
"Sooner or later, Russian war criminals will be held accountable for their atrocities before the International Criminal Tribunal,” the Air Force said.
“Truth is on our side. We will not be broken! We will avenge every Ukrainian, for every piece of land that terrorist Russia has brought grief to. The enemy will be punished."
The POWs were likely shot by the Russian 76th Air Assault Division based in Pskov, war crimes investigator Yurii Belousov reported on Dec. 28.
The 76th Air Assault Division, also known as the Pskov Landing Division, has participated in the war against Ukraine since 2014, and after the full-scale invasion in 2022, the unit took part in the occupation of Kyiv Oblast and committed numerous atrocities against civilians in Bucha.

When has war crimes ever mattered to Putler?

 

[Barteh]

What you suppose your hero Putin doing?

My hero Putin lmao. There's too many trolls in this place.

 

[Cid]

My point is still, why is any of that our concern? Maybe it would be if western countries weren't dealing with crippled economies, trillions of debt, immigration crises and all kinds of other shit at home.

I view this as kind of a Mavlov's pyramid for countries. Aiding others is very close to the top of the pyramid and all these other things that haven't been taken care of are way closer to the bottom.



Interesting. I'm gonna have to do some more research on this before forming a better opinion.

It's hard to read up on defense economics because most of what you read about is written by people who don't know shit about defense economics.

This guy is one of the exceptions:

https://www.youtube.com/@PerunAU/videos

Generally not a fan of youtube "experts" but he's carved an incredibly successful niche of pumping out power point presentations because he works in weapon procurement for my country (Australia) and you can pretty much instantly tell that from the content he knows the subject.

It's incredibly complicated though. Hour long presentations just scratch the surface of tiny aspects of a big picture.



I think the biggest risk is that America has found itself in another cold war due to stupid geopolitical decisions.

The situation with Taiwan, their semi-conductor technology and historical claims from China is a legitimate concern for American and global interests.

 

[DEVILsSON]

It seems like Biden is pushing behind the scenes for a settled solution like one that was proposed earlier in the war. Russia formally gets recognition for the two Donbas oblasts and Crimea and Ukraine keeps the other two oblasts. But for this to happen and mean something, Ukraine would have to join NATO. Anything less would not be worth the paper it'd be written on.

 

[Rational Poster]

My point is still, why is any of that our concern? Maybe it would be if western countries weren't dealing with crippled economies, trillions of debt, immigration crises and all kinds of other shit at home.

I view this as kind of a Mavlov's pyramid for countries. Aiding others is very close to the top of the pyramid and all these other things that haven't been taken care of are way closer to the bottom.



Interesting. I'm gonna have to do some more research on this before forming a better opinion.

A lot of the direct military aid is in the form of lend lease which means the state of Ukraine is indebted to pay back at least some portion of the value of the donated equipment and other resources over the next several generations. The two governments will work this out after the war ends generally. The US government has historically been incredibly good at documenting the transfers of arms and materials, like we knew exactly how many buttons we donated to Stalin.

DoD and the President also have access to various programs that can supply arms to foreign governments, not just Ukraine, without congressional approval. The aid being debated over in Congress is only a portion of the total, not the entirety of all aid.

 

[PEB]

Looks like we're at a tipping point where Ukraine could lose this war unless the West does more. Russia is now a wartime economy and will be able to produce more of their weapons going into next year. Unless Europe and the US really commits and help drastically more, Ukraine will not be able to win.

All the stupid ass people in the US fooled by propaganda to say "We should be spending the money here and not in Ukraine" are fucking retarded and have no idea WTF they're talking about. As @AWilder posted, the military aid we're giving them is primarily coming from our old stocks - much of which need to be recycled anyway.

The US literally has thousands of Abrams tanks in storage and we gave 30. We can help a lot more and should because it is 100% in our self interest.

We already gave a commitment to help as long as it takes and now we're waffling. What does that tell the entire world and our allies?

It'll allow Putin to say the US is not a reliable ally and that he won. He will win re-election easily and declare victory over the big bad US.

And our allies that rely on our nuclear umbrella like Japan and South Korea are much more likely to arm themselves with nukes - which they can do so pretty easily.

The US and UK gave a commitment to Ukraine that we'd not let them lose their sovereignty if they gave up their nukes. That it'll prevent this EXACT scenario. Then we're just going to waffle and let it happen? When it was in our power to stop it? That's pathetic.

What Happens if Putin Wins

‘We’ll Be at Each Others’ Throats’: Fiona Hill on What Happens If Putin Wins

The veteran Russia watcher is deeply alarmed as Washington reaches an inflection point on the war in Ukraine.

www.politico.com

The chuckle heads are all cheering because they believe their load "intentional" and savior Trump will win by a big administration failure of Biden. Not that they will succeed at making the western world weaker an less safe in the bargain. An make US be considered untrustworthy an not a super power.

 

[PEB]

It seems like Biden is pushing behind the scenes for a settled solution like one that was proposed earlier in the war. Russia formally gets recognition for the two Donbas oblasts and Crimea and Ukraine keeps the other two oblasts. But for this to happen and mean something, Ukraine would have to join NATO. Anything less would not be worth the paper it'd be written on.

I know that is Politico making up click bait headlines. Biden knows that would all but certainly doom his Presidential return.

 

[DEVILsSON]

I know that is Politico making up click bait headlines. Biden knows that would all but certainly doom his Presidential return.

You think so?

I'd certainly be pissed if he did that but the average American probably couldn't give a shit. Many Americans are more upset by what's happening in Gaza than Ukraine....

 

[The XL]

Appeasement to a military aggressor literally never works. Didn't work with the Nazis who started WW2 - and actually never worked in human history.

If Russia is allowed to get away with this, they will 100% rebuild and keep going to other countries.

Nazi Germany posed a threat to most of the world. Russia has all it can handle with Ukraine+Cold war Western weaponry. They aren't a threat to NATO and certainly not America specifically. It's one thing to think what they're doing is wrong but they're objectively not a threat. Even supposing they were a threat no one is going to do shit in the era of nukes and bioweapons. Ukraine just had the misfortune of being weak

 

[The XL]

Meh you think after taking on a few regional countries like Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia they'll attack the NATO head on? I highly doubt it.

It's all fantasy. They'd get their ass handed to them. If they were somehow strong enough they'd either get nuked or a virus with a high kill rate would be released into Russia rendering them powerless. This whole war between 1st world nuclear powers fear mongering is just that, fear mongering

 

[aerius]

Looks like we're at a tipping point where Ukraine could lose this war unless the West does more. Russia is now a wartime economy and will be able to produce more of their weapons going into next year. Unless Europe and the US really commits and help drastically more, Ukraine will not be able to win.

All the stupid ass people in the US fooled by propaganda to say "We should be spending the money here and not in Ukraine" are fucking retarded and have no idea WTF they're talking about. As @AWilder posted, the military aid we're giving them is primarily coming from our old stocks - much of which need to be recycled anyway.

The US literally has thousands of Abrams tanks in storage and we gave 30. We can help a lot more and should because it is 100% in our self interest.

We already gave a commitment to help as long as it takes and now we're waffling. What does that tell the entire world and our allies?

It'll allow Putin to say the US is not a reliable ally and that he won. He will win re-election easily and declare victory over the big bad US.

And our allies that rely on our nuclear umbrella like Japan and South Korea are much more likely to arm themselves with nukes - which they can do so pretty easily.

The US and UK gave a commitment to Ukraine that we'd not let them lose their sovereignty if they gave up their nukes. That it'll prevent this EXACT scenario. Then we're just going to waffle and let it happen? When it was in our power to stop it? That's pathetic.

What Happens if Putin Wins

‘We’ll Be at Each Others’ Throats’: Fiona Hill on What Happens If Putin Wins

The veteran Russia watcher is deeply alarmed as Washington reaches an inflection point on the war in Ukraine.

www.politico.com

As Kissinger once said, "to be a enemy of the US is dangerous, to be a friend is fatal". The US has a very long history of hanging its allies out to dry when it's no longer convenient or popular to support them. Ukraine is going to learn this lesson the hard way, like Iran, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other nations where the US has intervened in the past 100 years.

As for US support, the problem is what the Ukraine needs vs. what the US has. The US has a ton of surplus armoured vehicles & aircraft whereas the Ukraine needs a shitload of artillery, shells, and drones along with the ISR and air defence systems to keep their artillery from being blown up. The US is very light on artillery systems and doesn't have the manufacturing capacity to mass produce artillery systems or shells at anything close to the numbers that are needed. Same thing with air defence. As for tanks, 3000 of them ain't gonna do much when the front lines are mined out the wazoo and supported by tons of artillery along with drones, helicopters, and aircraft. Even US military leaders aren't dumb enough to risk those tanks after seeing what happened during the failed summer offensive, they know the tanks will get butchered and they're not going to risk that loss of prestige, at least, not until things get much worse.

 

[Hog-train]

Nazi Germany posed a threat to most of the world. Russia has all it can handle with Ukraine+Cold war Western weaponry. They aren't a threat to NATO and certainly not America specifically. It's one thing to think what they're doing is wrong but they're objectively not a threat. Even supposing they were a threat no one is going to do shit in the era of nukes and bioweapons. Ukraine just had the misfortune of being weak

Russia is absolutely a threat to it's neighboring countries and former Soviet Republics.

The UK and France tried to appease Nazi Germany and that only emboldened them. With imperialistic powers like that, appeasement NEVER works. They always take as much as they can.

In the same way, any negotiation deal will include Russia keeping the current land as well as an end to sanctions. Russia will rebuild, then start doing their takeover shit again to it's neighbors. Takeover doesn't necessarily mean active full military takeover. Sometimes they do partial shit like in Transnistria. Or try to make them client states.