International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V13

[SandisLL]

I don't know in nuances about all cases how Ukr are trained in NATO countries.
OK, some cases I know a bit.

Air def training.
In my area if they doesn't speak english we don't teach them. 0.
For this Ukr usually at least had sent guys with military experience and with normal english level.
These quickly learned how to use Stinger, Mistral....
With autocannons ofc training process is longer.

One batch sucked to learn how to use this RBS swedish MANPAD and looks that cos this our MoD didn't had sent Ukr this stuff.
We are using for this instructors from different countries, therefore english is mandatory lingua franca for air def training.

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

Meanwhile somewhere in Russia...



4D chess...can't conscript them if they kill or maim themselves first...

 

[SandisLL]

Next stuff about de mining training for ...instructors.
We are using some engineers who doesn't have sufficient skills in russian or ukrainian in level sutiable to train them.
One from them might teach, from biggest languages in...english or german. He is very good and does have military education + Master's degree in engineering science and engineer's diploma + more than 15 years experience.( Mil ed in EU and U.S, engineering ed in Germany while he isn't from Germany ).

 

[SandisLL]

Today is weekend and still.
Lithuania had finally signed letter of intent to purchase ...main battle tanks.
This means discussions with potential sellers will be started next working day.

 

[PEB]

Meanwhile somewhere in Russia...



4D chess...can't conscript them if they kill or maim themselves first...

 

[Blayt7hh]

Meanwhile somewhere in Russia...



4D chess...can't conscript them if they kill or maim themselves first...

Holy fuck he actually looked like he was fine too

 

[Bojka]

Ukr starting a draft is understandable since situation calls for it, discussion was why elites families can avoid it, politicians are bound to hold their position peacetime position according to ukrainian law but there is very few kids or family members of politicians in armed forces.


(Goes for russia as well, by october last year 3 kids of russias politicians had fallen in combat)

It isn't even just about the principle that everyone should be subject to the same rules. It's more about how it would fundamentally change the decision making of those in power if their own loved ones were at stake. I think Zelensky would be a little more willing to cede 1 inch if members of his own family were fighting. It would have probably even affected the initial negotiations. The decision making becomes too dysfunctional and unethical when those in charge are insulated from the negative consequences of their decisions.

It would be like having residents of Martha's Vineyard make decisions related to border control. Those most against illegal immigration are those from border towns because they are the ones most affected by it. These luxury beliefs are inevitable and residents of Martha's Vineyard sang a much different tune once illegal immigrants started showing up in their own neighbourhoods.

The only way I would be more supportive of conscription is if the loved ones of the ruling class were evenly subject to it since it would prevent the complete disregard for Ukrainian life that we have seen throughout the war.

 

[Cole train]

It isn't even just about the principle that everyone should be subject to the same rules. It's more about how it would fundamentally change the decision making of those in power if their own loved ones were at stake. I think Zelensky would be a little more willing to cede 1 inch if members of his own family were fighting. It would have probably even affected the initial negotiations. The decision making becomes too dysfunctional and unethical when those in charge are insulated from the negative consequences of their decisions.

It would be like having residents of Martha's Vineyard make decisions related to border control. Those most against illegal immigration are those from border towns because they are the ones most affected by it. These luxury beliefs are inevitable and residents of Martha's Vineyard sang a much different tune once illegal immigrants started showing up in their own neighbourhoods.

The only way I would ever support conscription is if the loved ones of the ruling class were evenly subject to it since it would prevent the complete disregard for Ukrainian life that we have seen throughout the war.

Well thats another topic entirely and im staying out of that stuff lmao

getting too complicated for my peasant brain

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

It isn't even just about the principle that everyone should be subject to the same rules. It's more about how it would fundamentally change the decision making of those in power if their own loved ones were at stake. I think Zelensky would be a little more willing to cede 1 inch if members of his own family were fighting. It would have probably even affected the initial negotiations. The decision making becomes too dysfunctional and unethical when those in charge are insulated from the negative consequences of their decisions.

It would be like having residents of Martha's Vineyard make decisions related to border control. Those most against illegal immigration are those from border towns because they are the ones most affected by it. These luxury beliefs are inevitable and residents of Martha's Vineyard sang a much different tune once illegal immigrants started showing up in their own neighbourhoods.

The only way I would be more supportive of conscription is if the loved ones of the ruling class were evenly subject to it since it would prevent the complete disregard for Ukrainian life that we have seen throughout the war.

Do you recommend a UKR surrender?

 

[Bojka]

Do you recommend a UKR surrender?

At the beginning, I favoured Ukraine ceding as much territory as necessary to allow for the incorporation of the rest into the EU. I know Putin said he required neutrality, but you always initially ask for more at the negotiating table.

In the event that something like that was impossible, I am not against Ukraine's professional military, volunteers, and mercenaries fighting. And, as I said in that post, I would be less against conscription if the ruling class was subject to it in particular because of how it would change the decision making of those in charge.

 

[Plastikman_Eire]

It isn't even just about the principle that everyone should be subject to the same rules. It's more about how it would fundamentally change the decision making of those in power if their own loved ones were at stake. I think Zelensky would be a little more willing to cede 1 inch if members of his own family were fighting. It would have probably even affected the initial negotiations. The decision making becomes too dysfunctional and unethical when those in charge are insulated from the negative consequences of their decisions.

It would be like having residents of Martha's Vineyard make decisions related to border control. Those most against illegal immigration are those from border towns because they are the ones most affected by it. These luxury beliefs are inevitable and residents of Martha's Vineyard sang a much different tune once illegal immigrants started showing up in their own neighbourhoods.

The only way I would be more supportive of conscription is if the loved ones of the ruling class were evenly subject to it since it would prevent the complete disregard for Ukrainian life that we have seen throughout the war.

So, you feel that the people best placed to make strategic decisions are the people who are most emotionally invested?

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

 

[Bojka]

So, you feel that the people best placed to make strategic decisions are the people who are most emotionally invested?

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

It isn't just about strategy. You have to balance war strategy with regard for the lives of the people you are supposed to be making the best decisions for. It is impossible to get an appropriate amount of the latter with the way things are presently. In the event that the families of the ruling class were actually conscripted, a likely result would be that conscripts would typically have safer responsibilities than the professional military, volunteers, and mercenaries. In addition to Ukrainian officials being more willing to make concessions for a diplomatic resolution and so on.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

It isn't just about strategy. You have to balance war strategy with regard for the lives of the people you are supposed to be making the best decisions for. It is impossible to get an appropriate amount of the latter with the way things are presently.

Taking care of your "loved ones" sounds nice and everything but you would take a knee to Putin and kiss his hand while ceding whatever land you would. Do you know who Vlad Putin is? Would you take his word that whatever land you hand him would satisfy him? I dont think you understand the reality of this situation and you are using feelings over reality.
It's a little more blunt then that , UKR either stands and fights or they lose their country and live under Russian rule. If there was ever a time for a draft in history it is now in UKR, no man should be able to sit at home playing starcraft while others are sacrificing everything because "they dont want to"

 

[Bojka]

Taking care of your "loved ones" sounds nice and everything but you would take a knee to Putin and kiss his hand while ceding whatever land you would. Do you know who Vlad Putin is? Would you take his word that whatever land you hand him would satisfy him? I dont think you understand the reality of this situation and you are using feelings over reality.
It's a little blunt then that , UKR either stands and fights or they lose their country and live under Russian rule. If there was ever a time for a draft in history it is now in UKR, no man should be able to sit at home playing starcraft while others are sacrificing everything because "they dont want to"

Well you would immediately incorporate the remaining parts of Ukraine into the EU and I guess NATO. This is contingent on the likelihood that Putin was demanding more than he actually required with neutrality just like Zelensky is being hyperbolic when he says that he is unwilling to cede 1 inch.

If there was no possibility for this (which I doubt as it is clear from Putins's history that he is principally concerned with the region he refers to as 'novorossiya,' which is extremely geopolitically and resource important) then I already addressed what I would support.

 

[grimballer]

you wont even share a single link. lmao. calling me a clown, lmao.

youre conditioned to dismiss any news that doesn't go along with msm narrative...

yeah, youre a clown

 

[grimballer]

Can you link your sources and that doesn't mean using shit links. Where is your proof...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Utkin


if you're gonna do this bullshit then so am ....

oh, anything that contradicts your msm narrative is "shit links"

you been doing that bs the entire time, so what are you talking about?

you are desperately trying to push this absurd narrative that ukraine is winning, meanwhile the situation on the field is complete opposite

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Well you would immediately incorporate the remaining parts of Ukraine into the EU and I guess NATO. This is contingent on the likelihood that Putin was demanding more than he actually required with neutrality just like Zelensky is being hyperbolic when he says that he is unwilling to cede 1 inch.

If there was no possibility for this (which I doubt as it is clear from Putins's history that he is principally concerned with the region he refers to as 'novorossiya,' which is extremely geopolitically and resource important) then I already addressed what I would support.

Not sure why UKR is required to cede anything, otherwise you reward Putins invasion...which I notice of all your concerns you dont blame Russia for this mess they have created.

 

[grimballer]

Cool fan fiction. Concession accepted loser.

sure lil boy... don't have time to play games with you. go play with your barbies instead

 

[grimballer]

Source schools and hospitals were targeted, or stfu you weak ass troll

so you acknowledge journalists were targeted by nato?

 

[Bojka]

Not sure why UKR is required to cede anything, otherwise you reward Putins invasion...which I notice of all your concerns you dont blame Russia for this mess they have created.

There isn't much point in blaming a dictator who is a well known psychopath. It's called being pragmatic. I said what I had to say about Putin at the start of the war. He doesn't believe his own words and I don't take his justifications for the war the least bit seriously. That doesn't change the fact that it's a waste of breath to bother with condemning him. People on here condemn Putin mostly to rationalize their delusional self-righteousness despite celebrating the conscription and corrupt leadership in Ukraine.