International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V12

[Denter]

Iraq believed that the US wouldn't give a shit about him invading Kuwait or that they would be too afraid to act.

He was ultimately wrong, not enough time to make enough defensive fortifications and its not like it would had helped much when the US could bomb Iraq into the stone age with impunity.

The old urban legend is that Iraq brought it up in a phone call with the US ambassador, and misinterpreted the response as favorable.

 

[Rod1]

True but if you start doing something, should do it properly

My guess is that by they time they tried to do it, it was too late.

 

[Cole train]

. German Defence Ministry points out shortcomings of Ukrainian counteroffensive (msn.com)
Yeah, I guess the Germans are wrong too, right?

"The Bundeswehr has criticized the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine during the counteroffensive, stating that they are using the skills acquired during training abroad incorrectly. The German military considers the division of combat units one of the main disadvantages of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They remark that "a joint battle leadership is not recognizable."

"Not only does this "increase the risk of friendly fire", but it also leads to "maneuvering elements lacking in focus because the soldiers are trying to build up their own momentum or establish fire superiority."

"In other words, as long as Ukraine divides the Brigades which have undergone training in the West into groups of 10-30 soldiers, isolated from the rest of the troops, neither Western training, nor superior armament, nor large quantity of manpower will be of any use."

Not taking sides in argument but i would not use bundeswehr as info in anything, their horrible state is general knowledge

i saw talks online how ukr military was better than german one even before this war

 

[Rod1]

The old urban legend is that Iraq brought it up in a phone call with the US ambassador, and misinterpreted the response as favorable.

The US was pretty close to not acting because they didn't wanted to piss all Arabs who were very opposed to US military presence in the region.

US military presence in Saudi Arabia was after all one of the reasons Osama pointed out in his manifesto and one of the reasons why they didn't went for Saddam back then, which ultimately was a costly mistake.

 

[AWilder]

I think that the dramatic collapse of living standards is quite the negative in both of those countries.

Why don't you move to one of them if they're so great despite sanctions?

I think Russia is heading directly down the path to be just as shitty as North Korea or Cuba

Iirc North Korea is richer in natural resources than SK.

 

[Cole train]

My guess is that by they time they tried to do it, it was too late.

It does not take long to build a minefield, man can dig hole for one in 2 minutes, i dont exactly remember from my military days but 4 men were expected to dig plus 100 mines in hours (everything depending on type of minefield)

Trenches are long process to do though

 

[AWilder]

. German Defence Ministry points out shortcomings of Ukrainian counteroffensive (msn.com)
Yeah, I guess the Germans are wrong too, right?

"The Bundeswehr has criticized the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine during the counteroffensive, stating that they are using the skills acquired during training abroad incorrectly. The German military considers the division of combat units one of the main disadvantages of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They remark that "a joint battle leadership is not recognizable."

"Not only does this "increase the risk of friendly fire," but it also leads to "maneuvering elements lacking in focus because the soldiers are trying to build up their own momentum or establish fire superiority."

"In other words, as long as Ukraine divides the Brigades which have undergone training in the West into groups of 10-30 soldiers, isolated from the rest of the troops, neither Western training, nor superior armament, nor large quantity of manpower will be of any use."

That's funny. You were so full of glee when that initial Ukrainian western tactics counter offensive was stopped before it even began. I think the more sober analysis is that Ukraine is going to fight the way it knows how to fight. It doesn't have air superiority and article 5 levels of support. I think the best thing the west should do is provide Ukraine with what it asks for. If Ukraine wants western style tactics that's great, but if they realize trying to fight with two very different strategies is a losing strategy it's pretty lame to armchair quarterback why it isn't working.

 

[Rod1]

It does not take long to build a minefield, man can dig hole for one in 2 minutes, i dont exactly remember from my military days but 4 men were expected to dig plus 100 mines in hours

Trenches are long process to do though

They did mined oilfields and the such, but my guess is that its not only the whole digging that makes it hard, also the level of disarray in the Iraqi army was insane, it was like the Russian army a very top down command structure and the US bombed the shitload of communications and command posts.

 

[AWilder]

They did mined oilfields and the such, but my guess is that its not only the whole digging that makes it hard, also the level of disarray in the Iraqi army was insane, it was like the Russian army a very top down command structure and the US bombed the shitload of communications and command posts.

It was pretty wild watching the videos of laser guided bombs targeting... Manholes. To hit the lines and equipment underground

 

[Cole train]

They did mined oilfields and the such, but my guess is that its not only the whole digging that makes it hard, also the level of disarray in the Iraqi army was insane, it was like the Russian army a very top down command structure and the US bombed the shitload of communications and command posts.

Heres some info on desert storm mine breaching/minefield i posted while back if interested

https://commons.lib.jmu.edu/cisr-journal/vol5/iss3/9/

 

[Rational Poster]

. German Defence Ministry points out shortcomings of Ukrainian counteroffensive (msn.com)
Yeah, I guess the Germans are wrong too, right?

"The Bundeswehr has criticized the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine during the counteroffensive, stating that they are using the skills acquired during training abroad incorrectly. The German military considers the division of combat units one of the main disadvantages of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They remark that "a joint battle leadership is not recognizable."

"Not only does this "increase the risk of friendly fire," but it also leads to "maneuvering elements lacking in focus because the soldiers are trying to build up their own momentum or establish fire superiority."

"In other words, as long as Ukraine divides the Brigades which have undergone training in the West into groups of 10-30 soldiers, isolated from the rest of the troops, neither Western training, nor superior armament, nor large quantity of manpower will be of any use."

No, did I say anything contrary?

Just that your overall posting in this forum comes off like a partisan psychopath, not someone actually interested in the conflict.

 

[Rod1]

Iirc North Korea is richer in natural resources than SK.

It was also more industrialized, SK started at poor sub-saharan African nation levels of development.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Just because they're having an effect doesnt mean they'll make Russia collapse.

I didnt say they would collapse due to sanctions but they are having an effect. The massive cost of an all out war is huge. Mass production of all weapon systems, heavy armor, ammo and everything that is needed to feed 100's of thousands of troops and pay them every day. That is a big reason why the Soviet Union collapsed putting so much money into the war effort adds up.
How much debt can Russia take on? Not to mention one of Russia biggest problem is their mentality, they will lie and deny to the very end and that's why China is swooping overhead like a vulture waiting to see what happens.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

The discussion started because someone was saying Russia will collapse economically.

Yes, then you pulled a spin Marino and said I said they would collapse because of sanctions which they wont. Sanctions will hurt them economically and make it harder for them to make certain weapons.

 

[AWilder]

No, did I say anything contrary?

Just that your overall posting in this forum comes off like a partisan psychopath, not someone actually interested in the conflict.

I think he's one of the dorks who thinks trump somehow prevented this from happening. And this is somehow a reflection of Biden's failures or some such nonsense.

 

[Rational Poster]

I think he's one of the dorks who thinks trump somehow prevented this from happening. And this is somehow a reflection of Biden's failures or some such nonsense.

You think? That's like a baseline minimum of that guy's issue.

 

[AWilder]

 

[Strychnine]

Iirc North Korea is richer in natural resources than SK.

From what I've read you're right. After the Korean war, NK had a higher GDP than SK also. But as NK descended into a cult of personality (Hmmmm... That sounds familiar...) the country became a communist nightmare. Also, your company/country CAN go extract the resources in NK, for NK.

Good luck getting paid though. Ask France how that worked out for them.

 

[Strychnine]

Russian Strela gets struck



BMP must've been ammo racked.

Spoiler

 

[Strychnine]