Routine critique

[VoodooPlata]

Ok, so my program-hopping days are over - i'm doing a SS-type program until linear gains stop. Meanwhile i am going to eat like Roseanne Barr at a buffet with a lipo-clinic in the back, and once the gains don't come every week anymore i'll figure out what to do.

This is how i came up with this program: first off, SS programs all contain a squat, a press, and somehow picking shit up off of the ground. I am too easily bored to do the same three things every day, so there has to be some variation - thoerwise i might be tempted to switch programs again. Then i decided that there are some assistance lifts that i did for high reps during Wender's 5/3/1 that i feel help me a lot, so i wanted there to be one very "minor" lift per day as well. There are three training days, and i will train every other day.

EDIT: some changes

DAY 1:
Squat 3 * 5
Incline DB bench 3 * 5 [This is the press - i chose incline DB because i haven't done them before now and i like doing DB bench on one day and BB on another]
Powercleans 5 * 3 [More sets and lower reps because Rip says so in SS]
Skullcrushers 3 * 10

DAY 2:
Deadlift 1 * 5 + 5 singles[Lower volume on deadz because Rip says so, switched places with today's squat variation because i want to have lots of energy for deadlifts.]
Front Squat 3 * 5 [I love front squats, they are great for core strength]
SOHP 5 * 5 [My OHP is puny, so i believe that the higher volume will not hurt since the weight is so low, see http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f13/squat-overtraining-1338847/ thread for background to this reasoning]

DAY 3:
Squats 3 * 5
Bench 3 * 5
Zercher Deadlifts 3 * 5 [These are cool, and i haven't done them before]
Chins 3 * 10 [Must chin]

Inspired by Wendler's 5/3/1 I will deload every four weeks. I read up a bit on singles, and I think doing singles for deadlifts is wicked fun so I think that the last workout before each deload i will do nothing but 4-10 single-rep deadlifts. This should be fun, shocking for the system and very grunty/sweaty/manly.

Thoughts?

 

[ssdd]

If that was my program and I did that many good mornings on day 1, it would probably interfere with my DL coming up on the next training day. Theres a ton of SLDL on day 2 too, if I really went all out on my deads and front squats, I'd have a hard time completing 5x10 SLDL, esp after my grip got all shot out from the regular DL. Try it and see how it goes but thats a lot of volume on the assistance lifts.

 

[rckvl]

Good mornings and stiff leg deadlifts are not "minor" assistance. Just pick Starting Strength, a 5x5, or even 5/3/1 if you want and stick with it. They are set up by people who know what they are doing.

 

[VoodooPlata]

Good mornings and stiff leg deadlifts are not "minor" assistance. Just pick Starting Strength, a 5x5, or even 5/3/1 if you want and stick with it. They are set up by people who know what they are doing.

Good Mornings and Stiff leg deadz are minor if you do them at a very low weight. Anything can be called minor assistance if the weight is very light. This program is exactly like any SS variation except for
1. I added assistance, the volume of which might be too high.
2. I varied the exercises more, seeing as I have good coordination and know how to do more exercises than a true novice would.

Thank you for your contribution, though!

If that was my program and I did that many good mornings on day 1, it would probably interfere with my DL coming up on the next training day. Theres a ton of SLDL on day 2 too, if I really went all out on my deads and front squats, I'd have a hard time completing 5x10 SLDL, esp after my grip got all shot out from the regular DL. Try it and see how it goes but thats a lot of volume on the assistance lifts.

The good mornings are meant to be very light, but you have a point that the volume might be too much. I just put 5 * 10 since that's what i was doing on 5/3/1, but this program has higher intensity and more exercises per day. So you have a very good point regarding the assistance lifts - i will cut those back to 3 * 10. Grip should not be too much of an issue, but is also an excellent point.

Thank you, as well!

 

[rckvl]

Also 15-20 deadlift singles is too many if you are doing it with any sort of intensity. Here is something that will aid you in coming up with the amount of singles and at what intensity.

 

[milano]

If you're a beginner, which from the looks of the program you are, then why not just do SS?

edit: 15-20 singles on deadlift? Why on earth would you do that? I don't think you understand how taxing heavy deadlifts are...

 

[Origins]

Good Mornings and Stiff leg deadz are minor if you do them at a very low weight. Anything can be called minor assistance if the weight is very light. This program is exactly like any SS variation except for
1. I added assistance, the volume of which might be too high.
2. I varied the exercises more, seeing as I have good coordination and know how to do more exercises than a true novice would.

Thank you for your contribution, though!



The good mornings are meant to be very light, but you have a point that the volume might be too much. I just put 5 * 10 since that's what i was doing on 5/3/1, but this program has higher intensity and more exercises per day. So you have a very good point regarding the assistance lifts - i will cut those back to 3 * 10. Grip should not be too much of an issue, but is also an excellent point.

Thank you, as well!

GM's and SLDL's are pretty big, compound exercises. I don't really see the point of even doing exercises like that if you don't do them seriously. I realize that you want to throw in different exercises to avoid boredom, but I don't think those are really the right choices if you do insist on adding things.

Are you into oly lifts at all? Maybe you could add some oly work one or two days a week instead. They would probably be easier to recover from and wouldn't affect your DL's and squats as much. Especially since you are probably not moving too much weight on those lifts yet.

 

[VoodooPlata]

Also 15-20 deadlift singles is too many if you are doing it with any sort of intensity. Here is something that will aid you in coming up with the amount of singles and at what intensity.

Thanks man! I read a couple of articles on singles and they said to do 20-something, but i should have remembered to check Prilepin... ok, deadlift singles are down to 4-10.

If you're a beginner, which from the looks of the program you are, then why not just do SS?

Because, as i explained in my original post: since i am not a complete novice (I squat 1.5 times my BW, bench 1.25 and deadlift 2 * BW - so weak, but not completely new) i will get bored if i "just do SS" and this program is an SS variation with one single exercise per day added. SS is:
1. Squat
2. Press
3. Pick something up off of the ground
4. Progress linearly
And i don't see how adding one light exercise at the end of each workout hurts that much when you have built some work capacity? If this is consensus i will remove the assistance work, but really guys - if you don't see that this is a slightly (not heavily) modified version of SS i don't know what to do.

Also, i really want to do Zerchers because this forum has gotten me to believe that they will make me awesome. And the zerchers are the only really exotic thing with the program.

GM's and SLDL's are pretty big, compound exercises. I don't really see the point of even doing exercises like that if you don't do them seriously. I realize that you want to throw in different exercises to avoid boredom, but I don't think those are really the right choices if you do insist on adding things.

Are you into oly lifts at all? Maybe you could add some oly work one or two days a week instead. They would probably be easier to recover from and wouldn't affect your DL's and squats as much. Especially since you are probably not moving too much weight on those lifts yet.

Is low weight the same as "not seriously"? I did not realize there would be such controversy with these lifts, I've been doing them for high reps during 5/3/1 and it felt good and put some hamstrings on me. But ok, everybody is zooming in on that so I guess I will have to re-think my choice of assistance work! Something like skullcrushers on day 1 and... something else on day 2. Suggestions?

Also, i love oly lifts but i don't have access to a coach. I guess you were thinking about partial lifts of some kind - do you have any suggestions/recommendations?

Thanks a ton to all you guys for helping out, I really appreciate it and i assure you that if it seems that I am bitching i am just explaining why I want to do things a certain way - I am really grateful for all the input. Just stop saying "do SS" because that is what I am doing. Or convince me that I aren't.

 

[milano]

In the end you're gonna do what you want.

But if you're squatting heavy 3x a week and deadlifting heavy 2x a week then adding GMs and SLDLs seems a bit much.

 

[VoodooPlata]

In the end you're gonna do what you want.

But if you're squatting heavy 3x a week and deadlifting heavy 2x a week then adding GMs and SLDLs seems a bit much.

Agreed on both points, though it doesn't make much sense to ask for critique and then change nothing when everyone says the same thing. I took out the GMs and SLDL, gonna do skullcrushers and something else instead. DB flies, maybe.

 

[miaou]

The texas method sounds good for you.

What are the goals behind adding zercher deads? (maybe besides coolness?)

I would try to incorporate at least one more upper-body pulling exercise (preferably a horizontal pull). If adding something like BOR is too taxing for your lower back, I would consider things like chest-supported rows, seated cable rows or face pulls.

If your SOHP is "puny" compared to your bench, then I would consider doing it more often than once per week. Maybe 3 times every two weeks (on days 2,4,6).

If/when squats become too taxing, I would consider switching to a texas-type periodization for them.

 

[DrBdan]

I thought I already posted in this thread but I think it was baconator's similar thread. Anyway... I agree with miaou, the Texas Method or one of the Bill Starr 5x5 variations would be good for you. You are obviously past the beginner lifter point so a workout to workout linear progression probably isn't the best thing anymore. Texas Method and Bill Starr both use a weekly progression instead. You could do 5/3/1 but it's an even slower progression (monthly) but honestly that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Bill Starr 5x5 - Starting Strength Wiki

The Texas Method - Starting Strength Wiki

 

[Origins]

Is low weight the same as "not seriously"? I did not realize there would be such controversy with these lifts, I've been doing them for high reps during 5/3/1 and it felt good and put some hamstrings on me. But ok, everybody is zooming in on that so I guess I will have to re-think my choice of assistance work! Something like skullcrushers on day 1 and... something else on day 2. Suggestions?

Also, i love oly lifts but i don't have access to a coach. I guess you were thinking about partial lifts of some kind - do you have any suggestions/recommendations?

Thanks a ton to all you guys for helping out, I really appreciate it and i assure you that if it seems that I am bitching i am just explaining why I want to do things a certain way - I am really grateful for all the input. Just stop saying "do SS" because that is what I am doing. Or convince me that I aren't.

Doing light enough work on SLDL's and GM's so as to not interfere with all the other exercises you have in there, in my opinion, would qualify as not doing them seriously. If you were to do them hard and heavy enough to get much of a response from them, they would probably start interfering with your squatting 3x/week and deadlifting 2x/week. Herein lies the pickle. If I came off as an asshole, I am not trying to insult you or question your seriousness in training or anything like that. I'm jus' sayin'.

I don't understand why some people think that you need a coach if you are even going to think about doing the full version of the lifts. You are going to have to work harder to teach yourself the lifts, and you may never get your technique as good or be able to lift as much weight as you could with a coach, true. But you can still get stronger with shitty technique, and they can still be fun lifts. You do certainly need to get your form up to a level of relative safety, but that is not all that difficult.

If that kind of thing floats your boat and would help you stick to a program, I say go for it. If you are intimidated by the full versions you could do the power versions for a while. You could even start with hang power versions.

 

[VoodooPlata]

The texas method sounds good for you.

What are the goals behind adding zercher deads? (maybe besides coolness?)

I would try to incorporate at least one more upper-body pulling exercise (preferably a horizontal pull). If adding something like BOR is too taxing for your lower back, I would consider things like chest-supported rows, seated cable rows or face pulls.

If your SOHP is "puny" compared to your bench, then I would consider doing it more often than once per week. Maybe 3 times every two weeks (on days 2,4,6).

If/when squats become too taxing, I would consider switching to a texas-type periodization for them.

All this is really good stuff. The goals behind Zercher deads.. well, in an old thread finnegan wrote "once i have underhooks i can have my way with them" regarding how being a Zercher freak had helped him in grappling. That really caught me, and coolness/learning something new really helps as well. Lots and lots of coolness.

I should probably have Pendlay rows as well then, for an additional horizontal pull.

I'm a bit scared of Texas method since doing all that really heavy stuff on one single day seems like... it seems like maybe i would never have a really good result on exercises 2 and 3 that day. However, i really like singles so i could really go to town every week in that department. I'll really think about it - i need to switch soon so i don't do any more program-hopping after the switch.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Ok, so my program-hopping days are over - i'm doing a SS-type program until linear gains stop. Meanwhile i am going to eat like Roseanne Barr at a buffet with a lipo-clinic in the back, and once the gains don't come every week anymore i'll figure out what to do.

This is how i came up with this program: first off, SS programs all contain a squat, a press, and somehow picking shit up off of the ground. I am too easily bored to do the same three things every day, so there has to be some variation - thoerwise i might be tempted to switch programs again. Then i decided that there are some assistance lifts that i did for high reps during Wender's 5/3/1 that i feel help me a lot, so i wanted there to be one very "minor" lift per day as well. There are three training days, and i will train every other day.

EDIT: some changes

DAY 1:
Squat 3 * 5
Incline DB bench 3 * 5 [This is the press - i chose incline DB because i haven't done them before now and i like doing DB bench on one day and BB on another]
Powercleans 5 * 3 [More sets and lower reps because Rip says so in SS]
Skullcrushers 3 * 10

DAY 2:
Deadlift 1 * 5 + 5 singles[Lower volume on deadz because Rip says so, switched places with today's squat variation because i want to have lots of energy for deadlifts.]
Front Squat 3 * 5 [I love front squats, they are great for core strength]
SOHP 5 * 5 [My OHP is puny, so i believe that the higher volume will not hurt since the weight is so low, see http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f13/squat-overtraining-1338847/ thread for background to this reasoning]

DAY 3:
Squats 3 * 5
Bench 3 * 5
Zercher Deadlifts 3 * 5 [These are cool, and i haven't done them before]
Chins 3 * 10 [Must chin]

Inspired by Wendler's 5/3/1 I will deload every four weeks. I read up a bit on singles, and I think doing singles for deadlifts is wicked fun so I think that the last workout before each deload i will do nothing but 4-10 single-rep deadlifts. This should be fun, shocking for the system and very grunty/sweaty/manly.

Thoughts?

VoodooPlata...First, I want to assure you this is a safe place. Everyone here loves you....

BUT THIS IS AN INTERVENTION!!!

Stick to the SS Program. With the greatest possible respect, I doubt you know better than Rippetoe, who has been coaching athletes for over thirty years.

I know where you're coming from, man. I almost fell off the wagon myself this week; there's a new extension at my gym, with lots of shiny, new, BFO Dumbbells to play with...

It took all my willpower to stick to Barbell Bench and not change to Dumbbell Bench. But I'm still on SS Practical Programing, thank the Gods, and making steady progress. And I will stay on it until I physically stall on the lifts. Then, and only then, will I deload or change. Boredom is not a valid reason for changing something that still works!

My days of trying to second-guess people like Rip are over. Yes, it's difficult; there is no such thing as a completely cured Program-Hopper. You just have to take it one workout at a time...

Keep the faith, brother! We're here for you!

 

[VoodooPlata]

^^ I had a revelation of this kind myself just yesterday. Ok, but i'm not doing SS. I'm doing a Texas method template from the SS wiki. And that's that. Thank you all for helping a brother out!

 

[CRZA]

If you scared of the volume of texas method, you could try the bill starr 5x5 / madcow 5x5. The volume is'nt very high, as your ramping up to the sets. Im thinking about trying texas method after some months, so ill check your log, if you decide to choose it. Either way, good luck =)

 

[KnightTemplar]

^^ I had a revelation of this kind myself just yesterday. Ok, but i'm not doing SS. I'm doing a Texas method template from the SS wiki. And that's that. Thank you all for helping a brother out!

I got your back, brother!

Now if I can only follow my own advice...:redface:

 

[KnightTemplar]

If you scared of the volume of texas method, you could try the bill starr 5x5 / madcow 5x5. The volume is'nt very high, as your ramping up to the sets. Im thinking about trying texas method after some months, so ill check your log, if you decide to choose it. Either way, good luck =)

I have to admit, that is the one thing I don't like about SS(although I still follow the program of course). I find it easier to gain strength when I Ramp Up rather than Sets Across. I also find Ramping easier to recover from.

But Uberstrumbannfurher Rips says SA, so SA it is!:icon_chee:icon_chee

 

[VoodooPlata]

Ok, so this is what i'm doing now; it's Texas Method with ONE added exercise - i added heavy SOHP on volume day because it was suggested that i do SOHP two days a week.

Monday (Volume day):
Squat 5 * 5
Bench 5 * 5
BB rows 3 * 8
SOHP 5 * 5

Wednesday (Rest day, all weights are pretty light):
Front Squat 3 * 3
SOHP 3 * 3
Good Mornings 5 * 10
Chins 3 * 12 (I can't do this, but i'm close - i'll keep trying)

Friday:
Deadlift 5 * 1
Squat 5 * 1
Bench 5 * 1
OR (if i don't have a spotter)
DB Bench 1 * 5

This is texas method exactly as written - doing singles on friday is allowed, as is doing 1 * 5. The DB bench is mostly a necessity because sometimes i don't have a spotter (train at like 6 in the morning and the place is empty) and i don't want to miss out on training just because of that.

There. I've made a commitment to stick with this at least for the rest of the year.