Rousey and Tyson comparisons are apt.

[JayE]

Tyson had great defense and a great punch. He wasn't a great boxer. He came along at a time when the HW division was weak. He had about five amazing years and then dropped off quickly

You can argue that Cus's system had its weaknesses, but Tyson executed it better than Patterson or Torres. He had a very good jab, was hard to hit, and had a great punch selection. Essentially, he was very skilled, and did about as much as you could expect a fighter of his size do at HW within Cus's system. Honestly, his only major weaknesses were his small size and cardio (and his cardio wasn't terrible, it just wasn't great). I guess one could say that his infighting ability wasn't anything special (someone like Joe Frazier, a similarly short pressure fighter, was clearly a better infighter), but again, it certainly wasn't terrible.

 

[RedSoul]

Man Tyson was Ko'd a bunch of times by cans a few times as well. Roja nada was knocked out by Nunes a Brutal puncher and Holm a boxing champ.

That was after he was already ruined. Tyson under D'Amato and Rooney was a totally different animal. Those guys knew he needed discipline to handle his aggression, they had him fighting every few months so he would stay busy and not be distracted. Remember, when he won the title he was only 20. Don King came around, and all the money and celebrity pussy...he was 20, and couldn't say no.

 

[Rod Farva]

He was great. He left a coach and team that cared about him and let himself be consumed by greedy wolves. He really could have gone far.

I know a lot of you all are just gonna regurgitate what you've read, but for those of us old enough to have been watching his career unfold, we know the truth. He had unrivaled physical tools, always came in peak shape, and uuntil he lost D'amato and his discipline, always looked sharp and well trained. Add that to the fact that he was only 20 years old when he became the unified WBA, WBC, and IBF HW champion...well, he should have been the GoAT. He was ruined by fame and money.

I watched his whole career in real time. He had some real highlights but even more lowlights.

Had he been around 15 years earlier he would have been average

 

[RedSoul]

You can argue that Cus's system had its weaknesses, but Tyson executed it better than Patterson or Torres. He had a very good jab, was hard to hit, and had a great punch selection. Essentially, he was very skilled, and did about as much as you could expect a fighter of his size do at HW within Cus's system. Honestly, his only major weaknesses were his small size and cardio (and his cardio wasn't terrible, it just wasn't great). I guess one could say that his infighting ability wasn't anything special (someone like Joe Frazier, a similarly short pressure fighter, was clearly a better infighter), but again, it certainly wasn't terrible.

He was IMO the standard bearer of what was possible with Peek a Boo.

 

[Bill Laimbeer]

That was after he was already ruined. Tyson under D'Amato and Rooney was a totally different animal. Those guys knew he needed discipline to handle his aggression, they had him fighting every few months so he would stay busy and not be distracted. Remember, when he won the title he was only 20. Don King came around, and all the money and celebrity pussy...he was 20, and couldn't say no.

I understand all that man , but it was his choice to slack off and not evolve.

 

[Rod Farva]

You can argue that Cus's system had its weaknesses, but Tyson executed it better than Patterson or Torres. He had a very good jab, was hard to hit, and had a great punch selection. Essentially, he was very skilled, and did about as much as you could expect a fighter of his size do at HW within Cus's system. Honestly, his only major weaknesses were his small size and cardio (and his cardio wasn't terrible, it just wasn't great). I guess one could say that his infighting ability wasn't anything special (someone like Joe Frazier, a similarly short pressure fighter, was clearly a better infighter), but again, it certainly wasn't terrible.

His speed and accuracy were his strengths. He was very fast for a heavyweight.

 

[BoxingFan653]

Exactly..while Mike doesnt hold the pedigree of a Lennox Lewis or a Muhammed Ali he was very legit. Mike fought a lot of cans but he also EVISCERATED his opponents for years.

 

[moongaze]

So game he bit a dudes ear off.....if that's not mentally folding what is ?

That's called getting pissed at the other guy doing illegal tactics (headbutting) and snapping. You're going to compare that to someone that needed a year off after a loss and skips out on post fight conferences. When has Mike been knocked out in under a minute? Say what you want but he wasn't just some bully that folded when he was getting beat. It took his opponents a lot of time to break him down. He was a tough dude. Comparing him to Rousey shows your lack of intelligence

 

[moreorless87]

Lots of people are confusing lack of skill with lack of heart when discussing Ronda.

Ronda's lack of skill was the primary cause of her downfall.

Yeah I really don't get a lack of heart argument, she took a hell of a beating to go down both times where as someone like cupcake Tate folded mentally against Nunes.

I think the Tyson comparison does work though in that personality and training environment(post Cus for Tyson, Ronda moving to Edmond) combined to help bring them down. In Rouseys case it was basically buying into her own hype as a great striker and largely dropping her grappling that had brought he most of her success.

This time as well perhaps simple lack of motivation in training.

 

[Rod Farva]

So game he bit a dudes ear off.....if that's not mentally folding what is ?

He's admitted that he acted like "a spoiled brat" in that fight

 

[Bill Laimbeer]

That's called getting pissed at the other guy doing illegal tactics (headbutting) and snapping. You're going to compare that to someone that needed a year off after a loss and skips out on post fight conferences. When has Mike been knocked out in under a minute? Say what you want but he wasn't just some bully that folded when he was getting beat. It took his opponents a lot of time to break him down. He was a tough dude. Comparing him to Rousey shows your lack of intelligence

Ok man.......lol wow. He got his ass kicked and could handle being bullied so he bit a guys ear off. If he was strong mentally he would have tried to fight and win and not get disqualified. No need to angry and bite my ear off bro.

 

[JayE]

His speed and accuracy were his strengths. He was very fast for a heavyweight.

Certainly, but the benefit of that speed was maximized within a specific system that Tyson executed extremely well.

 

[Fedorer13]

As you keep missing the part where I say I watch all of fights in entirety when they happened and since. I am not a huge fan sorry t disagree

You called him overrated. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you hadn't seen his early fights. But if you really have, which I still doubt, then you don't understand what you were watching.

I can't explain it anymore, reread my other posts if you want to try to get it. At this point I gather that you're stuck in your mindset, so move on and we can end this conversation.

I agree that Holyfield is also awesome. My one regret is we didn't get to see prime Tyson with his original team fight Holyfield. That fight was in the works when it all went to shit. And by the way everyone assumed Holyfield would get destroyed at the time which is lost when people who don't get it look back and re-write the narrative. The Tyson who actually fought Holyfield was a pale imitation of the original guy. The real Tyson was long gone by then.

 

[RedSoul]

I watched his whole career in real time. He had some real highlights but even more lowlights.

Had he been around 15 years earlier he would have been average

I don't think he was an ATG...but he should have been, is my point. His failures had much more to do with life choices and not very much to do with lack of ability. I would take an well prepared focused, and properly trained Tyson over Holyfield, or Bowe, or Lewis, or any of the class fighters of his day. But we never got to see those fights because of slimy promoters basically using him up for self gain.

It's been reported that He would show up to a new city, and there would be a new exotic sports car there waiting for him. He'd drive it, then when he left town he'd never see it again. Don king was fleecing the kid, a 20 year old from the Ghetto who was clueless about money. Made a ton of money and then was quickly broke, and probably never controlled any of it. King got rid of all the people in Mike's life that let him know what was up, then replaced them with parasites, yes men, and sycophants. It's a damn shame, really.

 

[Bill Laimbeer]

You called him overrated. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you hadn't seen his early fights. But if you really have, which I still doubt, then you don't understand what you were watching.

I can't explain it anymore, reread my other posts if you want to try to get it. At this point I gather that you're stuck in your mindset, so move on and we can end this conversation.

I agree that Holyfield is also awesome. My one regret is we didn't get to see prime Tyson with his original team fight Holyfield. That fight was in the works when it all went to shit. And by the way everyone assumed Holyfield would get destroyed at the time which is lost when people who don't get it look back and re-write the narrative. The Tyson who actually fought Holyfield was a pale imitation of the original guy. The real Tyson was long gone by then.

I am a huge Lennox guy and an just far impressed by him. Forman said Lennox is the goat and I agree. He got knocked out twice ya but both times it was him being an idiot. He killed those guys in rematches and when he was with Stewart he was on another level.

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

both were maybe overrated but in different ways, ronda was a scrub rated as a god, mike was a beast rated as a god

Cus Tyson was a straight savage, maybe the best all time. I almost think if he fought Ali, it would kinda look like Garbrant vs Cruz.

 

[RedSoul]

I understand all that man , but it was his choice to slack off and not evolve.

He was a kid that got taken advantage of. It's a dam shame D'Amato died. He was the father figure that Tyson respected and loved. After he was gone, it was too easy to seduce a boy who's a physical freak possessing sky high levels of test, with pussy and ego stroking.

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

tyson had talent and fell apart due to drug addiction and horrible management.

rousey never had talent and beat up accountants and soccer moms.

He also had an addiction to pussy; pussy that wasn't given to him.

 

[Fedorer13]

Certainly, but the benefit of that speed was maximized within a specific system that Tyson executed extremely well.

Watching him ducking and weaving while advancing was beautiful. Poetry in the fucking ring. His upper body would be practically parallel to the ground. And when he got inside he would knock your head clean off.

I would've liked to see young Tyson fight Lennox. Lennox had six inches of height on him and that great jab. Could Mike have gotten past it and knocked him out? Obviously Mike was washed up by the time they did fight. I'm talking about a fantasy world where they could've fought in their primes.

 

[Bill Laimbeer]

He was a kid that got taken advantage of. It's a dam shame D'Amato died. He was the father figure that Tyson respected and loved. After he was gone, it was too easy to seduce a boy who's a physical freak possessing sky high levels of test, with pussy and ego stroking.

After he got out of jail, with no fight wear and tear he went back and trained with bums till he retired.