Rousey and Tyson comparisons are apt.

RedSoul said:
He was a kid that got taken advantage of. It's a dam shame D'Amato died. He was the father figure that Tyson respected and loved. After he was gone, it was too easy to seduce a boy who's a physical freak possessing sky high levels of test, with pussy and ego stroking.
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Going from Cus to no Cus was like Travis Browne going from Wink-Jack to Edmond.....it literally made him 1'000X worse.
 
Bill Laimbeer said:
I am a huge Lennox guy and an just far impressed by him. Forman said Lennox is the goat and I agree. He got knocked out twice ya but both times it was him being an idiot. He killed those guys in rematches and when he was with Stewart he was on another level.
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The McCall loss was just a flawed fighter (and Lennox was flawed at that point of his career) getting caught by an underrated HW with a solid punch. It wasn't really him underestimating McCall or acting like an idiot (the Rahman loss definitely was).
 
Bill Laimbeer said:
He could but choose bad camps right? Had the physical tools but lacked training ...not that was the original point of my thread lol
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He was a kid that lost his "dad" and some scumbag seduced him with money and women. It's easy to see that if he stayed focused, the potential for greatness was there. He won the unified HW title at 20, was a physical force, and when he was under good coaching, showed fine technique as well.

Even if it was just simple choice like you're saying, your assertion that he was never that good is way off. That's like saying that Jon Jones was never a great MMA fighter because he can't stop partying. Jon may never achieve the greatness he could have, but he was still the best fighter by an order of magnitude in his heyday, and so was Tyson.
 
Its convenient that Tyson's 'prime' coincided with him only fighting journeymen. That helps explain away the multitude of top guys he lost to.

Exciting, yes. I'd rather Tyson than glorified point-scoring we get today but "Prime Mike Tyson is the best boxer of all time" the is biggest myth in sports. If, but, maybe.....lets deal with facts. FFS, the man never beat anybody.
 
RedSoul said:
He was a kid that lost his "dad" and some scumbag seduced him with money and women. It's easy to see that if he stayed focused, the potential for greatness was there. He won the unified HW title at 20, was a physical force, and when he was under good coaching, showed fine technique as well.

Even if it was just simple choice like you're saying, your assertion that he was never that good is way off. That's like saying that Jon Jones was never a great MMA fighter because he can't stop partying. Jon may never achieve the greatness he could have, but he was still the best fighter by an order of magnitude in his heyday, and so was Tyson.
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Ronda lost her dad and is addicted to father figure Edmund. Her ego was over inflated by the hype machine ...nothing in common at all.
 
deman said:
Its convenient that Tyson's 'prime' coincided with him only fighting journeymen. That helps explain away the multitude of top guys he lost to.

Exciting, yes. I'd rather Tyson than glorified point-scoring we get today but "Prime Mike Tyson is the best boxer of all time" the is biggest myth in sports. If, but, maybe.....lets deal with facts. FFS, the man never beat anybody.
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Thank you.
 
Bill Laimbeer said:
I am a huge Lennox guy and an just far impressed by him. Forman said Lennox is the goat and I agree. He got knocked out twice ya but both times it was him being an idiot. He killed those guys in rematches and when he was with Stewart he was on another level.
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Lennox was a giant and had a killer jab. No doubt he was great. Tyson waa finished by the time they fought and I wish they were from the same generation, becuase that's a great question: can the smaller power-puncher get inside the jab or would Lennox eat him alive from the outside. I think Tyson could've done it but Lennox's big fans of course back Lennox, which is fair.

Man I wish boxing was still great. It's been corrupt since the 1800's so eventually it was going to end badly if it didn't get cleaned up. And now it's just completely dead IMO.
 
deman said:
Yeah, I get why people enjoyed Tyson & the excitement he brought - give me that over today's glorified sparring sessions anyday. But he was overrated.

People talk like the Buster Douglas defeat was some kind of Flash KO when in reality it was a one-sided beatdown.

Tyson was never the same against someone who would punch back. I remember even in the first Bruno fight, he visibly backed off as soon as Bruno landed a decent punch. the Holyfield fights spoke for themselves
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Too bad Tyson won that fight fair and square and it's all on video.
 
Fedorer13 said:
Lennox was a giant and had a killer jab. No doubt he was great. Tyson waa finished by the time they fought and I wish they were from the same generation, becuase that's a great question: can the smaller power-puncher get inside the jab or would Lennox eat him alive from the outside. I think Tyson could've done it but Lennox's big fans of course back Lennox, which is fair.

Man I wish boxing was still great. It's been corrupt since the 1800's so eventually it was going to end badly if it didn't get cleaned up. And now it's just completely dead IMO.
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Tyson had issues with Busters jab. To be honest I think the era Tyson came out of jail to was too good. I would have like to seen it though. Him versus, Mercer, Witherspoon, Bowe, Tua, Moorer, Forman, Morrison......all would have been fun
 
ImNotSurpisedDonks! said:
Going from Cus to no Cus was like Travis Browne going from Wink-Jack to Edmond.....it literally made him 1'000X worse.
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For a few fights, while he was still with Kevin Rooney (Cus's main trainer) he was doing great. Back then he was elusive, used great footwork, and would set up those crazy KO's with his defense. But once he beat Spinks and won the title, the pimps and pushers gathered. He was surrounded by yes men who cared nothing for him in a genuine way, and was led to believe that he was unstoppable. You could see the change in his fights. His great footwork wasn't really there. He was just a speedy, athletic power puncher afterwards.

I don't think most people here understand that Cus was Mike's father more or less. Cus took Mike in when he was like, 11 years old. Mike was in a reform school, a big, aggressive child. When his mom died Cus actually raised him. Even still to this day, Mike is not mentally mature. He's a great athlete, but simple and easy for the vultures and parasites to manipulate. Such a waste.
 
Hey people thanks for the lively discussion and no stupidity. I miss shit like this on Sherdog. I honestly appreciate all the opinions
 
Tyson still has his moments even in his losses, Tyson never looked as bad as Ronda did in this fight.
 
moongaze said:
Tyson actually was game in his losses. He stayed in there and kept fighting. Ronda lost one fight and folded mentally. Don't disrespect Mike like this .
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Tyson took you out or you took him out. Again, this was a kid robbing ladies purses at 10 yrs with a burglary crew and beating up kids in high school at 11 yrs old :D. Comparing Tyson to Rousey again i think is insulting.

Tyson fights were must see and i think there were gate records when he fought. He was that exciting to see and watch. His style was one off. No one fought like Tyson. Not Lennox, Not Bowe, Not Holyfield.. I miss Boxing from back then. I was a kid back then but i remember everything shut down back then when Tyson fight was on. Now you ask for UFC fight in the bar and they ask you what? Boxing was a big deal then and for sure part of it was Tyson.
 
Bill Laimbeer said:
Tyson had issues with Busters jab. To be honest I think the era Tyson came out of jail to was too good. I would have like to seen it though. Him versus, Mercer, Witherspoon, Bowe, Tua, Moorer, Forman, Morrison......all would have been fun
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You can't take too much from the Buster fight. His team was gone and he was all screwed up. And he still arguably had Buster out but the ref fucked up.

I'm with you on seeing those fights. Would've been good.
 
Bill Laimbeer said:
After he got out of jail, with no fight wear and tear he went back and trained with bums till he retired.
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He was already wrecked, addicted to fame and used to people worshipping him. I'm sure he got (figuratively) his balls swallowed by 90% of that prison, both guards and inmates. At the height of his career, he was beloved and a transcedent figure. He was truly a household name. Your girlfriend's 11 year old sister knew when he was fighting.
 
Bill Laimbeer said:
Tyson had issues with Busters jab. To be honest I think the era Tyson came out of jail to was too good. I would have like to seen it though. Him versus, Mercer, Witherspoon, Bowe, Tua, Moorer, Forman, Morrison......all would have been fun
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I always liked Witherspoon as a fighter, but he was very much of the era that Tyson dominated, and he wasn't on a different level than the bulk of Mike's competition during his reign (he had multiple losses and very competitive fights with fighters that Mike destroyed). Tyson would walk through Moorer and Morrison (and probably an old Foreman, as well). Tyson/Bowe and Tyson/Mercer (I think Tyson would clearly beat Mercer, but Ray was very durable and had a nice skillset of his own to make things interesting) would be great fights. Tyson/Tua would be fun, as well (mostly because of the beating Tua could take).
 
Thepaintbucket said:
No it wasn't. It was back and fourth trading. Mike Tyson caught Buster douglas with a monster punch during one of the exchanges.

Tyson1.gif

Tyson2.gif
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This could've ended the fight. The ref completely fucked up.
 
JayE said:
I always liked Witherspoon as a fighter, but he was very much of the era that Tyson dominated, and he wasn't on a different level than the bulk of Mike's competition during his reign (he had multiple losses and very competitive fights with fighters that Mike destroyed). Tyson would walk through Moorer and Morrison (and probably an old Foreman, as well). Tyson/Bowe and Tyson/Mercer (I think Tyson would clearly beat Mercer, but Ray was very durable and had a nice skillset of his own to make things interesting) would be great fights. Tyson/Tua would be fun, as well (mostly because of the beating Tua could take).
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Great summary

I can't believe I missed the Witherspoon mention, maybe I'm reading too fast. That one is out there when discussing all-time great fighters. He did nothing to really distinguish himself against guys that Tyson walked through.
 
LOL, no comparison. Tyson was the real deal. He had way more fights and wins against legit opponents. His downfall was the way he interacted with women.
 
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