Crime Ross Ulbricht Pardoned

[Hellowhosthat]

There is a case to be made the the Silk Road made buying drugs safer.

Now THAT is debatable. And no, I don't think he was. He was an admin that got caught.

There's also a case to be made that people who would never dare go to a drug dealer in real life would have bought drugs if they could get them online without having to go to a bad neighbourhood.

 

[Ares Black]

There's also a case to be made that people who would never dare go to a drug dealer in real life would have bought drugs if they could get them online without having to go to a bad neighbourhood.

Maybe, but ultimately irrelevant.


Life in prison without the possibility of parole for a non-violent crime is some absurd Kafkaesque bullshit.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Maybe, but ultimately irrelevant.


Life in prison without the possibility of parole for a non-violent crime is some absurd Kafkaesque bullshit.

I disagree. There's plenty of people I'd throw away for life for serious financial and environmental crimes if it was up to me.

 

[Ares Black]

I disagree. There's plenty of people I'd throw away for life for serious financial and environmental crimes if it was up to me.

You should look into the case. It was a ridiculous miscarriage of justice.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

You should look into the case. It was a ridiculous miscarriage of justice.

Any good links to look at?

 

[Ares Black]

Any good links to look at?

A lot of the mainstream coverage is very biased, and so is the Free Ross stuff, but I'll see what I can find.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

A lot of the mainstream coverage is very biased, and so is the Free Ross stuff, but I'll see what I can find.

I've seen a couple of documentaries but I'm open to them being biased and if you can show me something that makes me re-assess my opinion I have no problem admitting being wrong.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

Yeah I think in general I'd be in favour of decriminalisation rather than legalisation. I don't think drugs should be freely available but I also don't think that giving drug addicts criminal records just for being drug addicts helps them rehabilitate.

Spent a lot of time in Vancouver recently, it's as bad as people describe. Right in the street, in plain sight.

Oddly enough, indoor smoking is banned 100% now, including hookah bars and cigar lounges - apparently they are only concerned with the health of non-drug users as well as concerned that children are being influenced by flashy cigar labels that its no longer permitted indoors. Cigar bands are covered with boring green neutral bands now as well to help keep kids from being attracted to them. When I talked to a cigar store about it, I had to ask which children in here were they concerned about? As far as I could see there was a minimum age requirement on the door and there was no way to look into the store through the windows. But a child seeing open and blatant drug use in middle of down town, that's ok, won't affect them.

Portland tried to mimic Portugals drug laws but that was a total disaster, leading them to re-criminalize drugs.

 

[cincymma79]

It's only a good pardon if Trump legalises the sale of drugs online. If he does that then I can see an argument for pardoning him because what he did is now legal but otherwise I don't see the justification.

Trump can’t do that

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Trump can’t do that

Has he mentioned wanting to do it?

 

[cincymma79]

Has he mentioned wanting to do it?

No. These people are impossibly dumb.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

its the same story everywhere this has been tried, Vancouver it's been done on the biggest scale. There is nowhere on the face of the earth you can point to where this system did not result in more deaths.

false. for one, BC's safe supply system is largely unique. there's none that are exactly the same which makes it impossible to say "this system" always results in more deaths. BC is the only one with that SPECIFIC system. overdose deaths going up would only suggest that system isn't working if usage rates weren't going up at the same rate or higher.

essentially, if overdose rates would have been 2x what the already exorbitant rate is without safe supply, that means the safe supply is helping, even if the OD rates are higher than they've ever been. at that point, you have an addiction problem, not a OD safety problem.

in addition, there have been dozens and dozens (if not hundreds) of other examples around the of safety regulations regarding recreational drugs being successful in curbing OD's.

 

[Lycandroid]

false. for one, BC's safe supply system is largely unique. there's none that are exactly the same which makes it impossible to say "this system" always results in more deaths. BC is the only one with that SPECIFIC system. overdose deaths going up would only suggest that system isn't working if usage rates weren't going up at the same rate or higher.

essentially, if overdose rates would have been 2x what the already exorbitant rate is without safe supply, that means the safe supply is helping, even if the OD rates are higher than they've ever been. at that point, you have an addiction problem, not a OD safety problem.

in addition, there have been dozens and dozens (if not hundreds) of other examples around the of safety regulations regarding recreational drugs being successful in curbing OD's.

What makes the BC safe supply unique is scale and that's it, both policy, suppliers and infrastructure have great overlap almost to the point of being universal. The framework that was developed in BC has been used in other jurisdictions despite all it's failures.

The usage rates went up not only because of the safe supply but because of the fact that BC legalized possession of all drugs to such disastrous results both in increased deaths and skyrocketing petty crime. It is impossible to curb deaths at the same time perpetuating the cycle of addiction. The safe supply model does not work because you are keeping the addict addicted..... sometimes. What you see quite often is that the safe supply drugs are too weak, so they are sold on the streets to buy the real stuff.

This approach only works when the main goal is rehabilitation so when you say there are hundreds of examples of this working out it is because rehabilitation is prioritized, when it isn't deaths can only go up.

 

[Misfit23]

Any good links to look at?

Case 76: Silk Road (Part 1) - Casefile: True Crime Podcast https://search.app/FMhgHZQJjuHAWo916

This is a fun listen.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

It is impossible to curb deaths at the same time perpetuating the cycle of addiction. The safe supply model does not work because you are keeping the addict addicted..... sometimes. What you see quite often is that the safe supply drugs are too weak, so they are sold on the streets to buy the real stuff.

This approach only works when the main goal is rehabilitation so when you say there are hundreds of examples of this working out it is because rehabilitation is prioritized, when it isn't deaths can only go up.

and how do you expect rehabilitation to be prioritized when people are going to jail for drugs instead of rehab?

 

[Cid]

you're a dumb fuck...no way trump has a noble motivation...1000 percent the dude bought his pardon...Trump is for sales

Double dumbfuck for stating drugs are safer because they are more easily accessible...are you a fan of the Sackler family?

Sensitive little fella aren't you.

I didn't say he has a noble motivation I said the motivation doesn't matter. I gave him not knowing who DPR is as an option because I don't think he knows who DPR is.

The Sackler family created an addictive pain killer and marketed it as non addictive and hid evidence to the contrary. I've already addressed this in a vague sense in talking about how we address products that kill people.

It's the third paragraph in the post you quoted.

Morally I'm against the death penalty because I don't like the state having that kind of power over it's citizens.

But democracy and the state is designed to give power to the masses over the powerful and elite and prevent them from harm from these people because the damage they can cause is so much worse than a single murder. The Sacklers are a prime example of this with their actions killing hundreds of thousands of people.

Basically the Sacklers should be executed, cremated and their ashes should be sent off to landfill with the rest of the garbage.

 

[calavera2]

Sensitive little fella aren't you.

I didn't say he has a noble motivation I said the motivation doesn't matter. I gave him not knowing who DPR is as an option because I don't think he knows who DPR is.

The Sackler family created an addictive pain killer and marketed it as non addictive and hid evidence to the contrary. I've already addressed this in a vague sense in talking about how we address products that kill people.

It's the third paragraph in the post you quoted.

Morally I'm against the death penalty because I don't like the state having that kind of power over it's citizens.

But democracy and the state is designed to give power to the masses over the powerful and elite and prevent them from harm from these people because the damage they can cause is so much worse than a single murder. The Sacklers are a prime example of this with their actions killing hundreds of thousands of people.

Basically the Sacklers should be executed, cremated and their ashes should be sent off to landfill with the rest of the garbage.

guaranteed trump knows very little of whom dpr is past the money he paid for his pardon

you do realize the Sicklers are free to walk the earth enjoying the spoils of their treachery

 

[jeremyemilio]

Maybe this is a separate Libertarian party but I seem to remember them booing Trump at that event and then opting to throw their support behind a gay leftist.

Don’t know why he’s keeping pledges to them.

I remember not a single person on Reason.com endorsed Trump.

Self identified Libertarians are a tad more cucked than they were a decade ago…and painfully arrogant.

Maybe even worse than hysterical Trump deranged democrats and neo-cons. Current Libertarian movement reeks of the most offensive odor of elitism currently in US politics. Libertarians are the only people I ever hear refer to themselves as “Elite Human Capital” lol. Fuck yourself.

Anyway, for the pardon I can take or leave it. Silk Road proudly facilitated rampant crime. Not just drugs. Human trafficking, Identity theft, murder for hire, CP.

I always thought his sentence was excessive and support a commutation…but I wouldn’t have cared if Trump welched.

He should pardon Snowden

I don't disagree with most of your sentiment here, but people do get a few things confused that are fairly important details. Under Ulbricht, the original Silk Road did not (intentionally, at least) facilitate trade in things like human trafficking, murder for hire, or (especially) CP. Ulbricht's Silk Road was pretty much an open marketplace for drugs and had pretty strict policies against things that they viewed as being harmful to inocents. After Ulbricht was arrested, Silk Road 2.0 came into being. That was a marketplace for everything, including hitmen and CP.

Ulbricht refused to plea and ended up with two life sentences.

The man who started Silk Road 2.0 was arrested, too. He took a plea deal and ended up getting 6 years.

That's a key factor in why libertarian groups and others have rallied around Ulbricht.

(I don't know enough about the charges against him involving his own efforts to hire hitmen to comment on whether his harsh sentencing makes sense, but I do know that the other dude getting only 6 years for his much, much worse version of the same website is a travesty.)