Ronda Rousey is not an all-time great. Not a great fighter.

[Pitier of Fools]

She achieved a lot, but she surely goes down in history as more of a pioneer than an actual great fighter.

Much like 90s Royce Gracie (who either submitted you or got wasted because he could only do one thing) or early 00s Tito Ortiz (who either won via TD's & top control or got wasted because he could only do one thing), Ronda (won via judo throws or got wasted) was successful at a particular point in time, but never evolved past that.

You surely can't be considered a great fighter or an all-time great if:

A - you are so one-dimensional that once people work out how to disengage from the clinch and pop you with strikes from range, your career is effectively over because you are incapable of doing anything else at all

B - you are totally unable to come back from a loss and win another fight, because you have a heart the size of a pea and were left so devastated by that one loss, ie: having a one-dimensional mentality to match a one-dimensional skillset


For me, Ronda is the female Royce. A pioneer, but not a great fighter. Joanna Champion and Nunes and Cyborg and maybe others like Shevchenko and Waterson, this is where we should look for great female fighters with more modern and evolved MMA games.

You shouldn't disrespect Royce like that. One dimensional as he was, he tested himself against some absolute monsters in his day. Kimo, Severn, Shamrock....even Matt Hughes later on.

 

[billharford]

The thing that set Ronda apart was her mental toughness. Dana told me so

 

[Kelman]

You just said Royce wasn't a great fighter. You should be banned just for that.

He wasn't a great fighter at all. You kidding? He was a great BJJ practitioner, but obviously not a great fighter. He couldn't do ANYTHING else!

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

Greatness is context-dependent, and relative to your competition, relative to your peers.

George Mikan wouldn't make a D1 team today.
Walter Johnson would have a slightly above-average fastball today.
Whoever was winning the 100 yard dash 50 years ago would get beat by some high-school sprinters today.

Etc...

Ronda is an all-time great, a great fighter for her time, and the game has evolved past her at the top level.

None of those three things contradict one another.

 

[Bloodsprt]

nah what she achieved is greatness. She beat miesha twice and cat once as part of a 12-0 streak. That is great.
Ronda holds wins over those two who have beat the two women that beat her. The sport hasn't changed or evolved passed her or some weird justification.

 

[Kelman]

nah what she achieved is greatness. She beat miesha twice and cat once as part of a 12-0 streak. That is great.

And as soon as she lost once and was figured out, she was done and couldn't come back.

That is not great.

 

[HHJ]

You're evading the question. If someone goes through their career NEVER rallying and doing ANYTHING after getting hurt, does that mean they have heart? I say that makes no sense. If that's heart, what isn't heart?! Heart is Frankie Edgar getting blitzed in the first round by Maynard, and rallying, gutting it out, and coming back and doing something positive. Heart isn't a fighter that is basically a dead man walking the second they get clipped.

What can she do? its clear what shes been trained to do,and it worked for so long. If she cant do that,shes sunk. Its not a question of heart,if she doesnt have the tools to fight back.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

He wasn't a great fighter at all. You kidding? He was a great BJJ practitioner, but obviously not a great fighter. He couldn't do ANYTHING else!

Don't make it obvious you're a complete newbie fan.

 

[Kelman]

What can she do? its clear what shes been trained to do,and it worked for so long. If she cant do that,shes sunk. Its not a question of heart,if she doesnt have the tools to fight back.

As I said, cool. I didn't realize that 'heart' in an MMA context meant someone who is never able to rally after getting hurt, and gets finished not long after getting hurt. Interesting.

 

[information]

Are you saying she's an All-Time Not Great?

 

[Kelman]

Don't make it obvious you're a complete newbie fan.

I don't think you quite understand the 'mixed' part of 'great mixed martial artist'.

 

[TH1RTE3N]

I said it before, RR was a good WMMA pioneer fighter and she was fortunate enough to fight almost nothing but fighters that played right into her strengths. Her opponents were primarily wrestlers and none of them had stand-up that was even above average until Holms. Now that she's finally faced BWs with legit stand up and not primarily take-down/ground fighters, she's not as great.

 

[boxingskills]

The biggest fraud in sports history. Beat low calibre fighters then get called the Goat.

Finally fights 2 competent fighters: 2 humiliating loses.

She even got hyped up as a woman that could beat professional male fighters. Talk about false advertisement from Dana, Rogan and Co.

Stick to hyping Conor because he is actually worth the hype.

 

[Bloodsprt]

And as soon as she lost once and was figured out, she was done and couldn't come back.

That is not great.

so you must be perfect and never lose? What the fuck are you on?

 

[Deleted member 196663]

I don't think you quite understand the 'mixed' part of 'great mixed martial artist'.

Everyone that watched Royce during his prime thought he was great. Then new fans come along and compare him to Dillashaw or some shit and try to revise history.

 

[Fedor>Cain]

You shouldn't disrespect Royce like that. One dimensional as he was, he tested himself against some absolute monsters in his day. Kimo, Severn, Shamrock....even Matt Hughes later on.

not to mention, he fought men much larger than he was

Ronda wouldn't even fucking fight Cyborg with 5lbs catchweight

 

[Bloodsprt]

The biggest fraud in sports history. Beat low calibre fighters then get called the Goat.

Finally fights 2 competent fighters: 2 humiliating loses.

She even got hyped up as a woman that could beat professional male fighters. Talk about false advertisement from Dana, Rogan and Co.

Stick to hyping Conor because he is actually worth the hype.

he is also one dimensional. Why do you think he wants to move to boxing?

 

[HHJ]

As I said, cool. I didn't realize that 'heart' in an MMA context meant someone who is never able to rally after getting hurt, and gets finished not long after getting hurt. Interesting.

My argument isnt wether she is an all time great. We didnt get to see her in the blood and guts war that could have defined her. Not everyones career turns out like people could have wanted. We didnt see her Anderson/Chael kind of fight. Maybe the closest was the choke against Carmouche. But i dont think she doesnt have heart. I think that if she KNEW what to do,she would have done it to the best of her ability. Against Holm she kept doggingly doing the same thing over again because she wanted to win despite how much pain she was in,despite how embarassing it was.

 

[Kelman]

so you must be perfect and never lose? What the fuck are you on?

Eh? What sort of idiot could make this deduction from what I said?

I'm saying greats could come back from defeats and have success. Nothing whatsoever to do with perfection or not losing. The fuck you talking about??

 

[Bloodsprt]

Everyone that watched Royce during his prime thought he was great. Then new fans come along and compare him to Dillashaw or some shit and try to revise history.

this kelman guy is a classic bonehead. Fedor lost 3 in a row. He isn't great right? Anderson is on a 4 fight losing streak. He was a fraud the whole time also? Everyone will lose eventually.

 

['Rocky']

Not really. He took advantage of a sport in it's infancy, and got embarrassed once the sport evolved.

I'll give him extra points for no weight classes though.

Pretty sure even Choyce could box better than this.