Ronda Rousey is not an all-time great. Not a great fighter.

Kelman

Kelman

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She achieved a lot, but she surely goes down in history as more of a pioneer than an actual great fighter.

Much like 90s Royce Gracie (who either submitted you or got wasted because he could only do one thing) or early 00s Tito Ortiz (who either won via TD's & top control or got wasted because he could only do one thing), Ronda (won via judo throws or got wasted) was successful at a particular point in time, but never evolved past that.

You surely can't be considered a great fighter or an all-time great if:

A - you are so one-dimensional that once people work out how to disengage from the clinch and pop you with strikes from range, your career is effectively over because you are incapable of doing anything else at all

B - you are totally unable to come back from a loss and win another fight, because you have a heart the size of a pea and were left so devastated by that one loss, ie: having a one-dimensional mentality to match a one-dimensional skillset


For me, Ronda is the female Royce. A pioneer, but not a great fighter. Joanna Champion and Nunes and Cyborg and maybe others like Shevchenko and Waterson, this is where we should look for great female fighters with more modern and evolved MMA games.
 
Yup, like some of us have been saying for a while. WMMAs Hoyce Gracie
 
Joyce was better than Ronda, though.
 
Kelman said:
She achieved a lot, but she surely goes down in history as more of a pioneer than an actual great fighter.

Much like 90s Royce Gracie (who either submitted you or got wasted because he could only do one thing) or early 00s Tito Ortiz (who either won via TD's & top control or got wasted because he could only do one thing), Ronda (won via judo throws or got wasted) was successful at a particular point in time, but never evolved past that.

You surely can't be considered a great fighter or an all-time great if:

A - you are so one-dimensional that once people work out how to disengage from the clinch and pop you with strikes from range, your career is effectively over because you are incapable of doing anything else at all

B - you are totally unable to come back from a loss and win another fight, because you have a heart the size of a pea and were left so devastated by that one loss, ie: having a one-dimensional mentality to match a one-dimensional skillset


For me, Ronda is the female Royce. A pioneer, but not a great fighter. Joanna Champion and Nunes and Cyborg and maybe others like Shevchenko and Waterson, this is where we should look for great female fighters with more modern and evolved MMA games.
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I dont doubt Ronda's heart at all. She didnt get hit and act like a coward,in fact the fact that she came back at all shows she DOES have alot of heart. Carano never came back. She was woefully unprepared for this fight,and maybe it wasnt the right thing to fight such a tough fighter on her first fight back,but heart? she definitley has that.
 
If anything, pioneer is more of an appropriate term. Best ever, once ever human, destroyer of all, no. Underserved and really unfair hyperbole. It's too bad. Ronda was something else, like her or not.
 
How terrible does Bethe look now
Nicolas%20Cage%20laughing%20like%20a%20mad%20man.gif
 
HHJ said:
I dont doubt Ronda's heart at all. She didnt get hit and act like a coward,in fact the fact that she came back at all shows she DOES have alot of heart. Carano never came back. She was woefully unprepared for this fight,and maybe it wasnt the right thing to fight such a tough fighter on her first fight back,but heart? she definitley has that.
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No she doesn't.

She's been hurt twice in her career, and has folded immediately thereafter.

How is that heart? Surely someone should have to recover from being hurt and actually do something in retaliation before they could be considered as having heart?

If Honda has another fight, gets hurt, and then gets wiped out soon after again, are you still going to say she has heart?

Heart is not an inability to do anything whatsoever the minute you get stung with a punch dude. If you get punched and are then just waiting to get stopped, that ain't heart.
 
IronMan374 said:
Joyce was better than Ronda, though.
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Not really. He took advantage of a sport in it's infancy, and got embarrassed once the sport evolved.

I'll give him extra points for no weight classes though.
 
It's all relative to competition. She had a long run at the top before getting figured out. Arguing about whether to call her pioneer or great fighter seems like an unnecessary distinction IMO.
 
Kelman said:
No she doesn't.

She's been hurt twice in her career, and has folded immediately thereafter.

How is that heart? Surely someone should have to recover from being hurt and actually do something in retaliation before they could be considered as having heart?

If Honda has another fight, gets hurt, and then gets wiped out soon after again, are you still going to say she has heart?

Heart is not an inability to do anything whatsoever the minute you get stung with a punch dude. If you get punched and are then just waiting to get stopped, that ain't heart.
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she didnt fold against holm,she got knocked out. Theyve shown the gif enough times. It didnt matter how much heart she had if she got koed by a headkick. She didnt get punched and just waited to get stopped,she was rocked,she was trying to win the fight,if you dont think she was,then i dont know whatt to tell you. Losing quickly doesnt mean she didnt have heart,she didnt tell herb dean to stop the fight. She gave all she had,she just took too many unanswered punches. She looked confused when herb stepped in.
 
HHJ said:
she didnt fold against holm,she got knocked out. Theyve shown the gif enough times. It didnt matter how much heart she had if she got koed by a headkick. She didnt get punched and just waited to get stopped,she was rocked,she was trying to win the fight,if you dont think she was,then i dont know whatt to tell you. Losing quickly doesnt mean she didnt have heart,she didnt tell herb dean to stop the fight. She gave all she had,she just took too many unanswered punches. She looked confused when herb stepped in.
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Cool. Every time you get hurt, you fold and lose = heart. You learn something new in this game every day.
 
Kelman said:
Cool. Every time you get hurt, you fold and lose = heart. You learn something new in this game every day.
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You just dont know what you are talking about.If you arent prepared for any kind of defense or plan b,and keep taking unanswered punches, what can heart do for you there. She had plenty of heart against holm,and kept moving forward,trying to WIN until the very end. She couldnt win because she didnt have a plan b so she ate punches. Did everyone mirko head kicked not have heart? Exactly. Shit,anyone who ever got in the ring with him had heart,just because they knew what he could do to them and did it anyway.Think before you post. Getting dominated does not mean you dont have heart.
 
Agnawedbone said:
It's all relative to competition. She had a long run at the top before getting figured out. Arguing about whether to call her pioneer or great fighter seems like an unnecessary distinction IMO.
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Great fighters don't get figured out.

GSP lost, he adapted/evolved, he came back and had success. Anderson lost, he adapted/evolved, he came back and had success.

If you lose once, cannot adapt/evolve, and never come back to the top, then you're too one-dimensional to be considered a great.

For me, this is a distinction worth making, as I'm interested in this sport and what true greats it produces. Royce Gracie was not a great MMA fighter in terms of abilities, he was a pioneer in an embryonic age. For me, Ronda is another Royce, not a genuine great like GSP or Anderson.
 
I see her as more of a tool of the corporation than a pioneer. A pioneer blazes their own trail. In this case the UFC handpicked a marketable female fighter and essentially cast her as the champion among champions. She is a great athlete, but very one dimensional. Everytime I saw her hit a headlock I thought "Jesus Christ, when are these broads going to figure out how to drop their hips?" People at it up too and a lot of money was made. Now Its over, but the women's division is established. I'm guessing some very dark days are ahead for Rousey. She already has some serious issues and it wouldn't surprise me if she went the way of Jason Miller.
 
Not a Ronda fan, but she is an all time great. At least had one of the all time greatest runs.
 
Agreed

Dom is a great fighter that showed you why in defeat. He hung tough and made adjustments. He kept fighting. Ronda was a one trick pony that when you took it away, folded like a cheap suit..
 
HHJ said:
You just dont know what you are talking about.If you arent prepared for any kind of defense or plan b,and keep taking unanswered punches, what can heart do for you there. She had plenty of heart against holm,and kept moving forward,trying to WIN until the very end. She couldnt win because she didnt have a plan b so she ate punches. Did everyone mirko head kicked not have heart? Exactly. Shit,anyone who ever got in the ring with him had heart,just because they knew what he could do to them and did it anyway.Think before you post. Getting dominated does not mean you dont have heart.
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You're evading the question. If someone goes through their career NEVER rallying and doing ANYTHING after getting hurt, does that mean they have heart? I say that makes no sense. If that's heart, what isn't heart?! Heart is Frankie Edgar getting blitzed in the first round by Maynard, and rallying, gutting it out, and coming back and doing something positive. Heart isn't a fighter that is basically a dead man walking the second they get clipped.
 
Kelman said:
She achieved a lot, but she surely goes down in history as more of a pioneer than an actual great fighter.

Much like 90s Royce Gracie (who either submitted you or got wasted because he could only do one thing) or early 00s Tito Ortiz (who either won via TD's & top control or got wasted because he could only do one thing), Ronda (won via judo throws or got wasted) was successful at a particular point in time, but never evolved past that.

You surely can't be considered a great fighter or an all-time great if:

A - you are so one-dimensional that once people work out how to disengage from the clinch and pop you with strikes from range, your career is effectively over because you are incapable of doing anything else at all

B - you are totally unable to come back from a loss and win another fight, because you have a heart the size of a pea and were left so devastated by that one loss, ie: having a one-dimensional mentality to match a one-dimensional skillset


For me, Ronda is the female Royce. A pioneer, but not a great fighter. Joanna Champion and Nunes and Cyborg and maybe others like Shevchenko and Waterson, this is where we should look for great female fighters with more modern and evolved MMA games.
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You just said Royce wasn't a great fighter. You should be banned just for that.
 
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