Rocky Marciano or Floyd Mayweather Jr. - Who had the better career?

[intrepid brawler]

Yes. HW. Hagler was in 1, too, and is an ATG. Why does winning belts in other classes matter more to you than dominating 1 for a while? Sometimes floating through weight classes means you get to choose and use timing and matchmaking to suit your belts that you fight for. At 1 weight class with 1 belt, you have to take on all contenders.

so you're saying that beating the best in 5 weight classes is less of an accomplishment than dominating ONE weight class? you musta had to twist yourself into all kinds of knots to come up with that logic.

 

[intrepid brawler]

But he DIDN'T beat Marciano in the first fight. The record shows, and thrn Charles got demolished in the rematch.

Jersey was winning until he wasn't? Not a good argument for saying Rocky isn't a winner. Jersey Joe got blown out by a tight right hand he wasn't expecting. Rocky switched how he threw the right hand. Good work, Rocko. Being knocked down doesn't matter if you win. Being knocked out matters.

exactly. and today we DO have more weight classes. so, lets forget the "what ifs". The bottomline is, marciano beat very weak comp at hw because it was weak post-war era...floyd dominated the best fighters in 5 thriving weight classes, some of them being hall of fame level fighters. the fact people consider marciano to be great is being very generous to rocky.

 

[intrepid brawler]

the thing is, i been watching boxing for many years. and marciano was not even considered a great fighter because of his level of competition. It was a given his comp was weak. he was considered great because he had a record of 49-0 which is hard for any fighter to attain regardless of skill level. But floyd did what marciano did FIVE times over...and against FAR superior comp. no further discussion to be had, imo.

 

[JayE]

In the 50's it would have been 1 weight class (147) that he dominated, though, because a lot of the others didn't exist, or he was not at for very long.

If you were to combine his wins at SFW and LW, he'd have fought several more elite opponents Marciano fought in his career. Having that kind of success from 130 to 154 pounds is significant in any context. Since Mayweather fought 3x more fights at the elite level than Marciano, Marciano would have had to fight in a golden HW era to really be in a compelling conversation alongside Mayweather regarding strength of resume. To put it simply, he didn't.

I think some people do overlook Marciano (plenty of people also overrate him because of the unbeaten record, granted) because he looks crude on tape. Still, Mayweather fought so much longer at the elite level that it's kind of impossible to argue Marciano's resume stacks up well.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

so you're saying that beating the best in 5 weight classes is less of an accomplishment than dominating ONE weight class? you musta had to twist yourself into all kinds of knots to come up with that logic.

what Floyd did was great, and he was undersized at MW, so im not saying in reference to Floyd vs Marciano, but, its a given that its easier to win multiple belts as a lighter fighter, especially now that weightclasses are 3-5 lbs apart. Not to mention to compare the days when there was one belt vs four major belts.

You could have a man who turns pro at 20 at 220, and thats it, there is no chance he will be more than a one division champ in his career. Whereas another man turns pro at 126lbs, and as he ages naturally he will likely compete across five divisions in his career.

It just isnt a case closed argument, or a fair comparison at all, especially when you consider that the heavyweight will actually be fighting men 20 or more lbs heavier than him regularly, and the smaller fighter will always be fighting a physically equalsized man.

Again, what Floyd did was awesome, but i just dont agree with your argument as a precedent.

 

[Strychnine]

prime castillo twice, prime marquez, judah, mosley, cotto, pacquiao, canelo, de la hoya, hatton, corrales. no losses.

that’s one of the most impressive resumés we will ever see. very few can stack up against that.

When you're right, you're right.

It's just that simple.

 

[Strychnine]

Thread needs more @sweetviolenturg

 

[PUO3]

Something tells me if they were the same size, Rocky would be his worst nightmare.

You cant honestly believe this. That dude was relentless with nasty power but youre kidding yourself to pretend thats some bad style matchup for Floyd.

 

[revoltub]

If you were to combine his wins at SFW and LW, he'd have fought several more elite opponents Marciano fought in his career. Having that kind of success from 130 to 154 pounds is significant in any context. Since Mayweather fought 3x more fights at the elite level than Marciano, Marciano would have had to fight in a golden HW era to really be in a compelling conversation alongside Mayweather regarding strength of resume. To put it simply, he didn't.

I think some people do overlook Marciano (plenty of people also overrate him because of the unbeaten record, granted) because he looks crude on tape. Still, Mayweather fought so much longer at the elite level that it's kind of impossible to argue Marciano's resume stacks up well.

But how many did floyd fight at their best weight class? Marcianos best weight class didn't even exist yet

 

[revoltub]

You cant honestly believe this. That dude was relentless with nasty power but youre kidding yourself to pretend thats some bad style matchup for Floyd.

If Maidana did what he did rocky wins

 

[JayE]

But how many did floyd fight at their best weight class? Marcianos best weight class didn't even exist yet

What do you mean? How many of the guys he fought were at their best weight class?

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

You cant honestly believe this. That dude was relentless with nasty power but youre kidding yourself to pretend thats some bad style matchup for Floyd.

i mean it’s definitely produced some of the tougher outings floyd had but it’s not like rocky brought something to the table floyd wouldn’t adjust to.

But how many did floyd fight at their best weight class? Marcianos best weight class didn't even exist yet

considering all the good heavyweights he fought were either his size or smaller, it basically existed.

 

[revoltub]

i mean it’s definitely produced some of the tougher outings floyd had but it’s not like rocky brought something to the table floyd wouldn’t adjust to.

considering all the good heavyweights he fought were either his size or smaller, it basically existed.

Smaller than 5'10 with a 66 inch reach? Who would that be exactly?

 

[FierceRedBelt]

Floyd is only 2 inches shorter than Rocky.
Floyd has a 72 inch reach and Rocky's was 68 inches.
Rocky reportedly walked around at 175-185lbs.

I guess my point is if they both fought today it wouldn't be inconceivable that they'd end up fighting.

I will say this when we talk about Marciano he's a man who didn't learn to fight until his twenties. Ignoring who he is if someone 25 years old walked up to you and said they are going to be better than Floyd Mayweather would you consider them crazy? I would.

It's not knocking the guy really, starting that late and having a championship career is freakish.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Smaller than 5'10 with a 66 inch reach? Who would that be exactly?

dumb point. we have weight classes, not height and reach classes.

5’11 and 68” reach by the way.

 

[deucesarewild]

so you're saying that beating the best in 5 weight classes is less of an accomplishment than dominating ONE weight class? you musta had to twist yourself into all kinds of knots to come up with that logic.

Nope. Not once. I am saying that going up and down in weight and picking who you fight gives you an advantage with matchmaking. It lets you time things and/or wait on guys. BUT i will say that you HAVE to fight the best guy when you have the only belt and don't change weight classes. That is a truth. I also have said several times in this thread that I actually have no side and don't care. But I will give countering viewpoints to a perspective (even though everyone here seems to just dig deeper trenches rather than get better eyes.) Are you okay with that?

 

[deucesarewild]

exactly. and today we DO have more weight classes. so, lets forget the "what ifs". The bottomline is, marciano beat very weak comp at hw because it was weak post-war era...floyd dominated the best fighters in 5 thriving weight classes, some of them being hall of fame level fighters. the fact people consider marciano to be great is being very generous to rocky.

Not weak, but not great. I already wrote about this so I won't reiterate too much. A lot of neophytes hear something or go on boxrec and think they have different eras figured out. Coaches of world champions have said that Rocky is great. They see something you don't. They also say Floyd is great. As mentioned earlier: comparing WW of today in a 17 weight class, four belts per division era to a heavyweight from an era when they just figured out T.V.'s and only had one belt per each of the 8 weight classes will get us nowhere.

Floyd had a great career. Rocky had a great career. Two truths in one place. Damn. Can't have room for that......apples and oranges in comparison.

 

[deucesarewild]

If you were to combine his wins at SFW and LW, he'd have fought several more elite opponents Marciano fought in his career. Having that kind of success from 130 to 154 pounds is significant in any context. Since Mayweather fought 3x more fights at the elite level than Marciano, Marciano would have had to fight in a golden HW era to really be in a compelling conversation alongside Mayweather regarding strength of resume. To put it simply, he didn't.

I think some people do overlook Marciano (plenty of people also overrate him because of the unbeaten record, granted) because he looks crude on tape. Still, Mayweather fought so much longer at the elite level that it's kind of impossible to argue Marciano's resume stacks up well.

Well perhaps don't recognize I am arguing that one is greater than the other, but I am positing contrary opinions. Marciano didn't start until 23 and was a pressure fighter (and they fade by 30). He was never destined to have a 2 decade career that could be extended because of a style.that ages well. Considering he did what he did in such a short span of time speaks to his qualities as a fighter. If Floyd had nine years only as a pro and had no childhood influences to sculpt him into a lifelong boxer would people remember him? Not sure. What ifs aside, I only mentioned them to say that what Rocky did in a short span was impressive. Great, even.

But anyway, you can tell who is a Rocky fan and who is not. Yoy can tell who is a Floyd fan and who is not. I'm sure you've seen this in the thread so far. I am and will remain in the middle.

 

[deucesarewild]

You cant honestly believe this. That dude was relentless with nasty power but youre kidding yourself to pretend thats some bad style matchup for Floyd.

I think if Maidens gave Floyd a damn close fight and if Oscar, way past it, did, then Rocky would be a real problem for him. He, like Floyd, had that quality to always find a way to win. Both were tremendous rematch fighters and won BIG in their rematches. Rocky never stopped and Floyd looked for a spot when the guy took breaks in order to pick up points (not his only way, just to clarify, don't try to make a point out of that). Would you honestly say that an undefeated, dominant rematch fighter who has an elite gas tank and an unbeaten chin would not be nightmare for anybody?

 

[Hagler]

Marciano didnt fight during ww2. All I'm saying is this...its not fair to assume that some hypothetical fighter was in the military that could've beaten marciano when nobody brings up ww2 when talking about other greats of the same era such as Louis or Robinson. By that logic the effects of ww2 go way beyond marcianos era even into today so why is marciano being singled out here? I just don't think it's fair.

Let’s say there was an impact in Marciano’s time and the same can be said about Louis’s and Robinson’s (even if he lasted longer), then. While it certainly doesn’t take everything from their legacy it kind of compensates boxing’s superior popularity back in these days. As far as I remember I brought up the point because somebody said first that comparing Rocky´s and Floyd’s eras made Rocky greater. My point is : it isn’t that simple.