Rizin RIZIN: Otoko Matsuri ***Sherdog Discussion*** 5/4 12AM ET (RIZIN.TV)

[Mick Dojang]

I always forget how deep the Rizin featherweight division is

I do wonder how a Shaidullaev or Kleber fares in UFC though , pretty strong division there too

 

[Bobby Boulders]

You got to take into account the wear and tear of training and fighting as well. I remember there was a thread here back in the day about how in general top fighters start to decline after about 7 years of active fighting career.

Well, if that's the case, he's already well into that time frame, I suppose. But then you've got guys like Tenshin, who has been fighting since he was 14 or some shit, and he just adds new dimensions and hadn't really slowed at all. I suppose the wear and tear may not be the same when you're not grappling all of the time

 

[HuskySamoan]

Wrong. Men genetically peak between the ages of 16 - 24. I was fighting for my life at the age of 19; I assure you the lad at that age is ready to go.

Your opinion doesn't really matter, that's hard statistics and science on this. For most measurements of athletic peak, it's between 22-28, but that 28 is beginning to slide back closer to 30 with advancements in science, nutrition, medical procedures and PEDs. These stats also largely correlate with most major sports that are ran semi meritocratically. Be it the Olympic sports or major sports Tennis, NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB, Rugby, Soccer etc. And to an extent Boxing and MMA, but they're more business driven so you see guys at the top stay longer age wise often and some guys that rise take forever to get to the top despite being obviously amazing due to business.

MMA takes forever to be really good, only now are we seeing the age fighters can go pro get more commonly turned back from 18 to 15-17yo in places. Only recently is it truly a global sport and one where guys are regularly competing amateurly at 14-17yo. But a kid like Kyouma got badly exposed in his last loss in a way that will take years to properly address for when, if he ever, makes it to an elite level. Who knows what else needs drastic work and exposure and growth and discovery for him too..probably a lot.

 

[colorles]

I never said anything about him not being active though, so I'm not sure why you're trying to make the point. All I said was that in 10 years, meaning when his experience level is high, presumably from staying active, he's going to be a beast

I don't doubt that. The point I am making, is that he can be a beast right now or in a few years in his early twenties. He will be in his physical prime during these late teen/early twenties years, as far as reactions, recovery, and all around athleticism is concerned.

It is absolutely asinine to think a man is at his peak in his late twenties/early thirties like a lot of posters seem to think here.

 

[HuskySamoan]

Let it be known, I've been telling you guys about Shaydullaev before he even dunked Khabibs boy on a UAE card, before he was even on @Hellowhosthat radar. I got an eye for talent, so many central Asians looking amazing in MMA these days.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

I always forget how deep the Rizin featherweight division is

I do wonder how a Shaidullaev or Kleber fares in UFC though , pretty strong division there too

It's hard to say with Kleber. His striking is kinda Gracie-esque, in that he is just setting up to try and go to the ground, but once it's there he's a problem for anyone.

I think Satoshi at 155 in the UFC would be interesting, bc his grappling is definitely elite, and since he lost to AJ his striking has made definite strides.

 

[colorles]

Your opinion doesn't really matter, that's hard statistics and science on this. For most measurements of athletic peak, it's between 22-28, but that 28 is beginning to slide back closer to 30 with advancements in science, nutrition, medical procedures and PEDs. These stats also largely correlate with most major sports that are ran semi meritocratically. Be it the Olympic sports or major sports Tennis, NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB, Rugby, Soccer etc. And to an extent Boxing and MMA, but they're more business driven so you see guys at the top stay longer age wise often and some guys that rise take forever to get to the top despite being obviously amazing due to business.

MMA takes forever to be really good, only now are we seeing the age fighters can go pro get more commonly turned back from 18 to 15-17yo in places. Only recently is it truly a global sport and one where guys are regularly competing amateurly at 14-17yo. But a kid like Kyouma got badly exposed in his last loss in a way that will take years to properly address for when, if he ever, makes it to an elite level. Who knows what else needs drastic work and exposure and growth and discovery for him too..probably a lot.

Again, wrong. Athletic peak through all of my experiences - which are extensive enough to speak on the matter - is ages 16 - 24 (with some variance from person to person; some won't be until they are 20 and some will be men at 15); although I will agree with you that PEDs and other "advances" can and do extend that prime.

I am not disagreeing fully on the experience aspect; although that can be acquired at a very young age if the man is active enough. Physically is what I am talking about though and that is 16 - 24; maybe extended a few years longer with the "advances in science" so to speak.

 

[MiroHa]

Your opinion doesn't really matter, that's hard statistics and science on this. For most measurements of athletic peak, it's between 22-28, but that 28 is beginning to slide back closer to 30 with advancements in science, nutrition, medical procedures and PEDs. These stats also largely correlate with most major sports that are ran semi meritocratically. Be it the Olympic sports or major sports Tennis, NHL, NFL, NBA, MLB, Rugby, Soccer etc. And to an extent Boxing and MMA, but they're more business driven so you see guys at the top stay longer age wise often and some guys that rise take forever to get to the top despite being obviously amazing due to business.

MMA takes forever to be really good, only now are we seeing the age fighters can go pro get more commonly turned back from 18 to 15-17yo in places. Only recently is it truly a global sport and one where guys are regularly competing amateurly at 14-17yo. But a kid like Kyouma got badly exposed in his last loss in a way that will take years to properly address for when, if he ever, makes it to an elite level. Who knows what else needs drastic work and exposure and growth and discovery for him too..probably a lot.

One point: I wouldn't say that losing to Yuki Motoya can be called being exposed. He's been in a great form recently and IMO should have won his title fight against Inoue in the last event.

 

[colorles]

I will also say this: I never touched a PED in my life. I am in...the minority when it comes to athletes in that regard. Maybe they really do extend the physical prime for many years longer.

In any case, it doesn't change what I am saying: stay as active as possible, acquire that experience as young as possible, and get those prime money fights in your early twenties.

 

[HuskySamoan]

Again, wrong. Athletic peak through all of my experiences - which are extensive enough to speak on the matter - is ages 16 - 24 (with some variance from person to person; some won't be until they are 20 and some will be men at 15); although I will agree with you that PEDs and other "advances" can and do extend that prime.

I am not disagreeing fully on the experience aspect; although that can be acquired at a very young age if the man is active enough. Physically is what I am talking about though and that is 16 - 24; maybe extended a few years longer with the "advances in science" so to speak.

Anecdotal experiences, however extensive, doesn't argue blatant mass data at elite levels and studies that are backed by such information along with biology. Average age of an Olympic gold medalist is 27. The peak age of NFL athletes is 26-28. Soccer is 25-28. These are backed by studies, not just my opinion. There are freaks, that Bulgarian kid at 19 medaling in Olympic lifting for instance. But yeah, you're off, you're wrong but I don't disagree with your sentiment, people think fighters primes are a lot older than it honestly is. It's for sure like 26-32, with the athletic peak probably being 25-28 like most sports and athletics. Read up then get back to me.

 

[MiroHa]

The way those chest and shoulder veins on Shaidullaev were popping is a bit sus

 

[Bobby Boulders]

Yall think Alex and Jiri went out and drank saki this weekend? Maybe Coke for Alex

 

[HuskySamoan]

One point: I wouldn't say that losing to Yuki Motoya can be called being exposed. He's been in a great form recently and IMO should have won his title fight against Inoue in the last event.

He shouldn't have been in there but it's time to send him to Tiger Muay Thai for months at a time so he can box up the Russians then get his ass smashed on the mats.

 

[MiroHa]

Yall thunk Alex and Jiri went out and drank saki this weekend? Maybe Coke for Alex

Jiri and Coleman were at dinner with Sakakibara, I saw some social media post with a video. I bet Sakakibara can show a good time in Tokyo

 

[Bobby Boulders]

The way those chest and shoulder veins on Shaidullaev were popping is a bit sus

He's not breaking any rules, at least. I'll allow it. If he crosses stateside he'd better play by the rules, though

 

[Bobby Boulders]

Beast

 

[HuskySamoan]

Shaydullaev might be the best 24 year old Bantamweight in the world right now (to me he's still a Bantam) and Daniyar might be the best 23 year old Flyweight in the world. They come from the same gym..

 

[colorles]

Anecdotal experiences, however extensive, doesn't argue blatant mass data at elite levels and studies that are backed by such information along with biology. Average age of an Olympic gold medalist is 27. The peak age of NFL athletes is 26-28. Soccer is 25-28. These are backed by studies, not just my opinion. There are freaks, that Bulgarian kid at 19 medaling in Olympic lifting for instance. But yeah, you're off, you're wrong but I don't disagree with your sentiment, people think fighters primes are a lot older than it honestly is. It's for sure like 26-32, with the athletic peak probably being 25-28 like most sports and athletics. Read up then get back to me.

PEDs do seem to extend physical prime extensively. I don't consider PEDs when I speak on the subject because I am speaking about natural prime. I take it you are aware how prominent PED usage is in high level athletics? You are not one of those naive deniers, no? None of that is natural, man. That is called being a science experiment.

 

[Mick Dojang]

Lol wtf, absolutely smoked him

 

[MiroHa]

First KO loss in Kleber's career