Rippetoe loses it?

nhbfan8080

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I don't follow Rippetoe but have read his starting strength book and seen some videos of his here and there.
But I get the feeling that in the olympic weightlifting field, he isn't that well regarded.

Recently Telander had a few videos and Rippetoe made some controversial remarks about how Lasha's recent record lifts weren't that impressive in comparison with his weight and old records from the 1980s. It just seemed weird, was he always like that?



 
Zach Talender knows Rippetoe gets clicks so he's sensationalizing his statements. Zach is desperate to succeed on YouTube and has been spamming youtube short videos as well, to the point where I had to unsubscribe. Anything for the algorithm.
 
Mark says getting stronger will make you better at any sport. Even the marked spot in the first video he says that. So I'm not following the discussion I guess, to be fair I don't do Olympic lifts. A stronger person will lift more with euqal technique, and rip certainly spends lots of time preaching technique.
 
I tried watching the second video in your post about a week ago and I never finished it. From what I saw it looked like he was making fun of Rippetoe's accent without really disagreeing with him in general. It seemed like forced outrage in an effort to get views so I turned it off. Maybe he did something else later in the video, but I couldn't last beyond the first few minutes.
 
I thought Telander's critic was very reasonable. I've followed Rip for a while, and I'm not sure he "lost it", more like he "never had it".

Many of his technique tips on the basic lifts are good, a lot of the rest is lacking. He will critique weightlifting coaches for not focusing on strength, but has never trained a high level Oly competitor or programmed for one in his life. That alone is suspect, he speaks with an authority he does not have. He bullshits about his qualifications. I can see how that would bother a professional Oly coach.

Also, IMO his position is fallacious. Saying "you just need to be stronger" is too simplistic. A lifter with a 600lb DL who's able to snatch with impeccable technique and has worked more on power generation might snatch more than a lifter with a 700lb DL who hasn't done those things. He makes a strawman that "Weightlifters think they don't need to deadlift or be strong". The argument is that they will have to manage their time and recovery and give the DL and BSQ a relative importance compared to other stuff they need to improve. As an argument from the guy in the video, who actually trains weightlifters, it makes sense to me. Rip seems to think they should prioritize the main strength lifts like a PL and that all that matters is to "just get stronger".

Rip also criticizes the low hips in the clean and the snatch and preaches a high hips "Deadliftesque" starting position. He also recommends OW do low bar squats in training and says high bar is pointless. His arguments seem to be purely theoretical, not empirical, and I've seen very few competitive lifters or coaches train like that (there are some, maybe). I don't know much, but my perception is that he's full of shit with that too, he speaks with a level of confidence that seems to be based on nothing but theory and speculation.

Aside from this vid, Rip's position on RPE training is total nonsense. He will dismiss empirical evidence from hundreds of lifters setting PRs at all levels and using RPE successfully (with its admitted flaws and limitations) in favor of some theoretical reason why anything except pure linear progression with %s is wrong. He says RPE is a trick to sell templates and save coaching time. That is simply bullshit and laughable.

His "Put on 5lbs and eat more" approach will work for a while, but there's many other approaches that work better in the long run for a lot of people. No one can progress linearly forever and not everyone wants to gain 60lbs. As soon as anything except pure LinProg comes up, he will say "I don't program for PLs because they don't pay the bills, your grandma who comes to the gym does. I don't care about advanced programming." A total cop out imo, because his forums are filled to the brim with young guys looking to get stronger. They are the main reason why he's popular on the internet, not grandmas, and he also published a long ass book about programming that he recommends all the time. He will participate in the strength programming discussion and make a ton of recommendations, and then cop out when his methods and results are criticized.
 
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I thought Telander's critic was very reasonable. I've followed Rip for a while, and I'm not sure he "lost it", more like he "never had it".

Many of his technique tips and setups on the basic lifts are good, a lot of the rest is lacking. He will critique the US team's Olympic weightlifting coaches for not focusing on strength, but has never trained a high level Oly competitor or programmed for one in his life. That alone is suspect, he speaks with an authority he does not have. He bullshits about his qualifications. I can see how that would bother a professional Oly coach.

Also, IMO his position is fallacious. Saying "well, you just need to be stronger" is too simplistic. A lifter with a 650lb DL who's able to snatch with impeccable technique and has worked more on power generation might snatch more than a lifter with a 700lb DL who hasn't spent time doing those things (made up numbers). He makes a strawman that "Weightlifters think they don't need to deadlift or be strong". They will have to manage their training time and recovery resources and give the DL a relative importance within their program compared to other stuff they need to improve. I haven't tested this stuff, but as an argument form the guy in the video, who actually trains weightlifters, it makes sense to me. Rip seems to think they should prioritize the main strength lifts and "just get stronger".

Rip also criticizes the low hips position in the clean and the snatch and preaches a high hips "Deadliftesque" starting position. He also recommends Oly W. do low bar squats in training and says high bar is pointless. His arguments seem to be purely theoretical, not empirical, and I've seen very few competitive lifters or coaches train like that (there are some, maybe). I don't know much about Oly W., but my perception is that he's kind of full of shit with that too, he speaks with a level of confidence that seems to be based on nothing but theory.

Aside from this vid, Rip's position on RPE training is total nonsense. He will dismiss empirical evidence from hundreds of lifters setting PRs at all levels and using RPE successfully (with its admitted flaws and limitations) in favor of some theoretical reason why anything except pure linear progression with %s is wrong. He says RPE is a trick to sell templates and save coaching time. That is simply bullshit and laughable.

His "Put on 5lbs and eat more" approach will work for a while, and I used it for a long time, but there's many other approaches that work well in the long run for a lot of people, because no one can progress linearly forever. As soon as anything except pure linear progression comes up, he will say "I don't program for PLs because they don't pay the bills, your grandma who comes to the gym does. I don't care about advanced programming." A total cop out imo, because his forums are filled to the brim with young guys looking to get stronger, and they are the main reason why he's popular on the internet, not grandmas, and he also published a long ass book about programming that he recommends all the time. He will participate in the strength programming discussion and make a ton of recommendations, and then cop out when his methods and results are criticized.

Came to say half of this, but will add, rip can suck a dick. Guy greatly over exaggerates his importance and expertise. Candito ran circles around on him regarding lift tech.
 
Say what you want about rip but in a world where so many people talk and preach about bills starr, many seem to not know to acknowledge that rip was coached for years by Bill starr and tommy suggs. I do think he has gotten worse and extremely narrow minded towards lifting, but his older videos are great and he even has some technique videos from suggs himself on the Olympic lifts and press. Lastly: Tommy kono wrote in his book advocating for high hips!
 
Say what you want about rip but in a world where so many people talk and preach about bills starr, many seem to not know to acknowledge that rip was coached for years by Bill starr and tommy suggs. I do think he has gotten worse and extremely narrow minded towards lifting, but his older videos are great and he even has some technique videos from suggs himself on the Olympic lifts and press. Lastly: Tommy kono wrote in his book advocating for high hips!

This.

I will add that the deeper one dives into Rip, the more ridiculous some of his as stuff is. Aside from technical debates he just over exaggerates everything. I listened to a short about steroids recently in which he was convinced very few professional athletes undertake a proper barbell routine. And if you did you would likely be equal with athletes taking steroids (because those that use, do not undertake a proper barbell routine). This is clearly ridiculous, and I could give more examples.

But he introduced me to proper barbell training and I will always have an interest in what he does and be grateful to him for that.
 
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I thought Telander's critic was very reasonable. I've followed Rip for a while, and I'm not sure he "lost it", more like he "never had it".

Many of his technique tips on the basic lifts are good, a lot of the rest is lacking. He will critique weightlifting coaches for not focusing on strength, but has never trained a high level Oly competitor or programmed for one in his life. That alone is suspect, he speaks with an authority he does not have. He bullshits about his qualifications. I can see how that would bother a professional Oly coach.

Also, IMO his position is fallacious. Saying "you just need to be stronger" is too simplistic. A lifter with a 600lb DL who's able to snatch with impeccable technique and has worked more on power generation might snatch more than a lifter with a 700lb DL who hasn't done those things. He makes a strawman that "Weightlifters think they don't need to deadlift or be strong". The argument is that they will have to manage their time and recovery and give the DL and BSQ a relative importance compared to other stuff they need to improve. As an argument from the guy in the video, who actually trains weightlifters, it makes sense to me. Rip seems to think they should prioritize the main strength lifts like a PL and that all that matters is to "just get stronger".

Rip also criticizes the low hips in the clean and the snatch and preaches a high hips "Deadliftesque" starting position. He also recommends OW do low bar squats in training and says high bar is pointless. His arguments seem to be purely theoretical, not empirical, and I've seen very few competitive lifters or coaches train like that (there are some, maybe). I don't know much, but my perception is that he's full of shit with that too, he speaks with a level of confidence that seems to be based on nothing but theory and speculation.

Aside from this vid, Rip's position on RPE training is total nonsense. He will dismiss empirical evidence from hundreds of lifters setting PRs at all levels and using RPE successfully (with its admitted flaws and limitations) in favor of some theoretical reason why anything except pure linear progression with %s is wrong. He says RPE is a trick to sell templates and save coaching time. That is simply bullshit and laughable.

His "Put on 5lbs and eat more" approach will work for a while, but there's many other approaches that work better in the long run for a lot of people. No one can progress linearly forever and not everyone wants to gain 60lbs. As soon as anything except pure LinProg comes up, he will say "I don't program for PLs because they don't pay the bills, your grandma who comes to the gym does. I don't care about advanced programming." A total cop out imo, because his forums are filled to the brim with young guys looking to get stronger. They are the main reason why he's popular on the internet, not grandmas, and he also published a long ass book about programming that he recommends all the time. He will participate in the strength programming discussion and make a ton of recommendations, and then cop out when his methods and results are criticized.
Very well said man. Think you covered all my critiques as well, and then some.
 
I feel like I'm back on an old CrossFit forum. I don't anyone has really cared about what Rip has had to say for years. He was one of the first guys to popularise the standard LP programmes, but that's about all.
 
Olympic weightlifting and powerlifting are not synonymous with fitness.
The goal is technique and lifting the weight above your head as effectively as possible (using things like momentum), and not train your muscles.
Lots of olympic weightlifters (natty) look relatively small compared to bodybuilders (natty).

Mark Rippetoe has been instrumental for his basic routine on how to build mass/strength.
Probably not the best routine, but I thank him for his input nonetheless.
 
Olympic weightlifting and powerlifting are not synonymous with fitness.
The goal is technique and lifting the weight above your head as effectively as possible (using things like momentum), and not train your muscles.
Lots of olympic weightlifters (natty) look relatively small compared to bodybuilders (natty).

Mark Rippetoe has been instrumental for his basic routine on how to build mass/strength.
Probably not the best routine, but I thank him for his input nonetheless.
Olympic weightlifting and powerlifting don't train your muscles? That's quite the hot take there.
 
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Im surprised @pokerandbeer hasnt gone apeshit yet. He considers rip a s&c god.

How would you know my thoughts on Rippetoe? He knows more about training than you do and he makes a living from doing this unlike you.

Are you still butt-hurt after all of this time?
 
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Looks like Rippetoe responded to this kinda. He posted a video about it, but there isn't much substance in it.

 
Olympic weightlifting and powerlifting don't train your muscles? That's quite the hot take there.

Late response, but basically, lots of these static movements are not conducive to "athleticism".
Look at any strength & conditioning done by pro athletes and MMA fighters.
They rarely do classic bodybuilding exercises. They do things that train their explosiveness, like box jumps and other circuit training (ropes, etc).
They don't just stand and squat, or do bench press. Well some do but the vast majority don't.

You can be an unfit fuck that has zero explosiveness, flexibility, athleticism, and do only compound strength training.
Pro bodybuilders are a perfect example. They are strong as fuck and have amazing muscles, but ask them to sprint or jump high, they can't.

PS: This is why after years of training bodybuilding the classic way, I now exclusively train like an Athlete would. Much more condusive to athleticism than classic bodybuilding.
 
Rippetoe isn't well regarded by just about anyone who actually works with athletes and is educated in the field of sport physiology.

His whole following is made up of moderately strong (in the squat, deadlift and bench only, I might add) male 30 something wannabe powerlifters who know nothing about training apart from what they've red on forums and in Rips books.
 
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