Are all of Doug Hepburn's lifts legit?

[SuperLuigi]

Hey guys, if you look at some of the old timey lifters some of their claims seem kinda suspect, and even lifters as recently as Tom Platz have been questioned whether their records are real. This brings me to the question of Doug Hepburn. For those who dont know, he was an average height dude who apparently broke the record for essentially every lift ever by a huge margin in the late 40s and early 50s. I cant find any discussions online about his lifts potentially being exaggerated. His olympic lifts are properly documented of course but as far as I can tell all the other lifts are just his personal claims.

Remember at this time the Soviet Union had started experimenting with synthetic T but in the West it only existed as an obscure medicine for lethargic old men, meaning he was almost certainly natural, at least in his prime when he did his best lifts.

So that brings me to the question of the thread, do you think all of his claimed lifts are legit? Here is a list from wiki:

• Clean and Press 381 pounds (173 kg)
• Press off the Rack: 450 pounds (204.5 kg)
• Push Press off the Rack: 500 pounds (227 kg)
• One-Arm Military Press: 200 pounds (91 kg), and 37 reps with 120 pounds (54.5 kg)
• Two-Hand Barbell Curl: 260 pounds (118 kg)
• Bench Press: 580 pounds (263.5 kg)
• Squat: 800 pounds (363 kg)
• Deadlift: 800 pounds (363 kg)
• Crucifix: 110-pound (50 kg) dumbbells in each hand
• One-Arm Side Hold-Out: 120 pounds (54.5 kg)
• One-Arm Side Press: 250 pounds (113.5 kg)

 

[ROcknrollracing]

yes

 

[gspieler]

I guess it depends what you mean by "legit". Dude was a tank at 5'8", 300lbs. And most of those were likely gym lifts.

So did he lift those weights? Probably.

Would they have passed in competition? Probably not.

 

[Volador]

Well, unless you post something we can look at, there’s no way to know. It would be a matter of looking up the evidence. But he won weightlifting gold medals, so certainly legit.

If your question is whether those particular numbers are humanly possible, I’d say yeah, although freakishly strong.

This dude was clean and pressing 500lbs in the 60s and making it look light. He would’ve been freakishly strong if he had been born 10 years earlier I would suppose.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Some added context:

500 lbs Push press off the rack - 20 years later when steroids were rampant and Ken Patera and Vasili Alekseyev were the strongest men in the world, Ken could press 550 off the rack and Vasili said he couldnt match this. This 550 was also a gym lift. So apparently Hepburn did only 50 lbs less despite being much smaller, it being 20 year earlier, and steroids not being available.

580 lbs bench - the record before Hepburn was 364 lbs and had stood for 30 years. Official powerlifting meets started in 1964 but didnt match this until 1972.

800 lbs squat and 800 lbs deadlift - Not matched in an official powerlifting meet until 1970 and 1972.

I agree these numbers are possible but they seem like the numbers of specialists who dedicate themselves to 1 lift, but this guy hit these kind of numbers in every lift. It makes me skeptical, but on the other hand we can be certain he did have freakish genetics because the olympic lifts are confirmed and there is a video of him on youtube in his 70s a few years before he died benching 260 like its nothing and hes like "yeah I havent benched in a year I should be a lot stronger".

 

[Baby Hanma]

I have his book, which contains both his life story and entire training system. There are photos of him in it too. I believe all of his lifts are legit. For example, it was documented that he did, in fact, squat 665 pounds to break Anderson's record. So will an 800 all-time best be unbelievable?

He also made the bench press popular.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I have his book, which contains both his life story and entire training system. There are photos of him in it too. I believe all of his lifts are legit. For example, it was documented that he did, in fact, squat 665 pounds to break Anderson's record. So will an 800 all-time best be unbelievable?

He also made the bench press popular.

Does he explain in the book why he never married? Not gonna lie when I heard that I wondered if he was gay.

 

[Baby Hanma]

Does he explain in the book why he never married? Not gonna lie when I heard that I wondered if he was gay.

Sorry for being late.

According to weightlifting historians, he never got married because he never had great social skills. I think that's bullshit. The dude was on top of the world in his pro wrestling days. He dated, just like any guy of age.

I think him being unmarried had more to do with his naturally brooding personality. He had it rough growing up, but as soon as he hit stardom in pro wrestling and weightlifting, the dude had a relatively normal celebrity life. He even became friends with John fucking Grimek. Imagine that.

 

[1rawdog]

Sorry for being late.

According to weightlifting historians, he never got married because he never had great social skills. I think that's bullshit. The dude was on top of the world in his pro wrestling days. He dated, just like any guy of age.

I think him being unmarried had more to do with his naturally brooding personality. He had it rough growing up, but as soon as he hit stardom in pro wrestling and weightlifting, the dude had a relatively normal celebrity life. He even became friends with John fucking Grimek. Imagine that.

I spent some time with him in the early nineties, couple of hours at each of probably 4 visits. Hard to tell what he was like when he was younger but by that point he was not doing very well, meaning he didn't seem very healthy and I'd agree with both the comments about social skills and brooding. Definitely eccentric.

I never saw him lift official stuff but holy shit was he still strong. I was young and in great shape. Training around and with high level powerlifters and bodybuilders, some legit world record holders and national champs so I was aware of what strong was.

We moved some stuff around in his warehouse space. There were some heavy racks and massive dumbells that I had trouble just dragging or rolling and he one handed them with apparent ease, handling 100lb plates with a pinch grip like they were dinner plates. The only thing that he showed any struggle with was he just had some issues with walking distances with heavy shit partly because the place was a mess. Keep in mind he was almost 70 years old and the stuff he was doing was pretty mind blowing regardless of age.

Despite the grumpiness I found him nice enough once I showed interest in his concepts some of which were pretty far outside the box. He never bragged about anything once during those visits, I'd believe all the lifts in the op without question especially as I'm guessing they were mostly done 30-40 years earlier than when I met him.

 

[Baby Hanma]

I spent some time with him in the early nineties, couple of hours at each of probably 4 visits. Hard to tell what he was like when he was younger but by that point he was not doing very well, meaning he didn't seem very healthy and I'd agree with both the comments about social skills and brooding. Definitely eccentric.

I never saw him lift official stuff but holy shit was he still strong. I was young and in great shape. Training around and with high level powerlifters and bodybuilders, some legit world record holders and national champs so I was aware of what strong was.

We moved some stuff around in his warehouse space. There were some heavy racks and massive dumbells that I had trouble just dragging or rolling and he one handed them with apparent ease, handling 100lb plates with a pinch grip like they were dinner plates. The only thing that he showed any struggle with was he just had some issues with walking distances with heavy shit partly because the place was a mess. Keep in mind he was almost 70 years old and the stuff he was doing was pretty mind blowing regardless of age.

Despite the grumpiness I found him nice enough once I showed interest in his concepts some of which were pretty far outside the box. He never bragged about anything once during those visits, I'd believe all the lifts in the op without question especially as I'm guessing they were mostly done 30-40 years earlier than when I met him.

Mister Rawdog, you are not joking. Right sir?

My friend, I am a massive fan of Hepburn. You spent time with him in person? We gotta talk about this. Can I private message you?

Dude, the only person I respect more than Hepburn is Paul Anderson himself.

 

[1rawdog]

Mister Rawdog, you are not joking. Right sir?

My friend, I am a massive fan of Hepburn. You spent time with him in person? We gotta talk about this. Can I private message you?

Dude, the only person I respect more than Hepburn is Paul Anderson himself.

No jokes bud, Feel free to PM but I'll warn you there is not too much more to the story than what I posted, just those eight or so hours. Maybe I'd remember some more specific stuff with some time and thought, maybe some specific questions. Just don't expect too much, I'm old now too

 

[Oogway]

I've been training using Hepburn's method for the last few months. I'm really enjoying it and have been making great gains. I tend to believe the lifts, but I'm Canadian, so biased

 

[Baby Hanma]

I've been training using Hepburn's method for the last few months. I'm really enjoying it and have been making great gains. I tend to believe the lifts, but I'm Canadian, so biased

They are very believable. I think of Hepburn as having a Pat Mendes DNA. Mendes squatted 800 pounds when he turned twenty. Hepburn 800 pounds as his lifetime best close to thirty. If it weren't for injuries, Mendes could've pushed it to 850-900, while Hepburn, a true natural, had 800 as his very best.

Hepburn basically had Serge Reding's build but slightly softer because of the lack of drugs. His best competition press was 390 pounds with bad technique. Reding's was 500 with great technique. Hepburn, with his strength, could've managed maybe what? 430 with Reding's or Alexeev's technique?

Very believable as long as you accept that he did have great training methods and had creme of the crop genetics.

 

[Smato_rules]

I like Hepburn, but I always wonder why John Davis is always overshadowed by him even though he was the more successful lifter in the same era (seriously not claiming racism)

 

[Baby Hanma]

I like Hepburn, but I always wonder why John Davis is always overshadowed by him even though he was the more successful lifter in the same era (seriously not claiming racism)

Um, because Hepburn lifted more? lol. Also, was Davis really overshadowed? The dude got some good recognition. Not as much as Anderson and Hepburn, but enough to get media attention and an entire book written about him. Also, Hepburn himself learned a few training tricks from Davis... Of which I know about. lol

Also, I really gotta say this man... Davis had the most badass natural weightlifter physique of all time. Steve Reeves and Bill Pearl had the best natural bodybuilder physiques, but Davis had an incredibly aesthetic weightlifter physique as a natural. The dude was awesome.

 

[Smato_rules]

Um, because Hepburn lifted more? lol. Also, was Davis really overshadowed? The dude got some good recognition. Not as much as Anderson and Hepburn, but enough to get media attention and an entire book written about him. Also, Hepburn himself learned a few training tricks from Davis... Of which I know about. lol

Also, I really gotta say this man... Davis had the most badass natural weightlifter physique of all time. Steve Reeves and Bill Pearl had the best natural bodybuilder physiques, but Davis had an incredibly aesthetic weightlifter physique as a natural. The dude was awesome.

I guess so, but I don’t hear Davis get brought up that often, but Hepburn is pretty well known. Probably because of his routines and book now that I think of it

 

[wwkirk]

Hey guys, if you look at some of the old timey lifters some of their claims seem kinda suspect, and even lifters as recently as Tom Platz have been questioned whether their records are real. This brings me to the question of Doug Hepburn. For those who dont know, he was an average height dude who apparently broke the record for essentially every lift ever by a huge margin in the late 40s and early 50s. I cant find any discussions online about his lifts potentially being exaggerated. His olympic lifts are properly documented of course but as far as I can tell all the other lifts are just his personal claims.

Remember at this time the Soviet Union had started experimenting with synthetic T but in the West it only existed as an obscure medicine for lethargic old men, meaning he was almost certainly natural, at least in his prime when he did his best lifts.

So that brings me to the question of the thread, do you think all of his claimed lifts are legit? Here is a list from wiki:

• Clean and Press 381 pounds (173 kg)
• Press off the Rack: 450 pounds (204.5 kg)
• Push Press off the Rack: 500 pounds (227 kg)
• One-Arm Military Press: 200 pounds (91 kg), and 37 reps with 120 pounds (54.5 kg)
• Two-Hand Barbell Curl: 260 pounds (118 kg)
• Bench Press: 580 pounds (263.5 kg)
• Squat: 800 pounds (363 kg)
• Deadlift: 800 pounds (363 kg)
• Crucifix: 110-pound (50 kg) dumbbells in each hand
• One-Arm Side Hold-Out: 120 pounds (54.5 kg)
• One-Arm Side Press: 250 pounds (113.5 kg)

Somebody maybe compare these lifts to the documented Olympic ones. Is there a discrepancy?

 

[1rawdog]

Um, because Hepburn lifted more? lol. Also, was Davis really overshadowed? The dude got some good recognition. Not as much as Anderson and Hepburn, but enough to get media attention and an entire book written about him. Also, Hepburn himself learned a few training tricks from Davis... Of which I know about. lol

Also, I really gotta say this man... Davis had the most badass natural weightlifter physique of all time. Steve Reeves and Bill Pearl had the best natural bodybuilder physiques, but Davis had an incredibly aesthetic weightlifter physique as a natural. The dude was awesome.

IDK about how to judge anybody being overshadowed but was certainly underappreciated by the Canadian federation Hepburn during his early career. That part of the story is amazing, virtually ignored, dismissed and unrecognized fro many years while setting all kinds of records.
And lets clarify about the nattiness of the two you mentioned. Reeves I could believe, when he was around 10 years old Test was barely off the ground in it's development as a pharmaceutical, It was possible to produce it in quantity by 1947 when he was 20 or 21 and won the Mr America but scarcely available. There are some pics of him that are supposed to be from when he was 15 and he already looks great, he never made any large leaps in size during his career, just slow steady progress and bulk added with maturity. Mind you he trained at York in his later years so who knows what happened there, Ziegler and Dianabol were big on the scene by the late 50's
Pearl might possibly have still been natty when he won the America but he definitely was not through his entire career, he wrote about it a few times and for sure was on something in the late 50's. He took 2-3 years off after winning the Ammy Universe in 53 and came back bigger in 56 as a pro.

Your point still stands though, all that doesn't mean neither of them had the best natty physiques. When they were natty.