RIP Quincy Jones

Nah, fuck that and fuck them.
If they did those things, there's no excuse or grace period.

Evil must be called out and stopped wherever, WHENEVER!!!
you a cold motherfucker, but I like that.

The folks over on lipstick alley are having a field day. But really, we don't know what the guy did or didn't do. The only reason we can even say things aren't total wacko conspiracies these days is because enough people have been caught in the last ten years and it's just plain getting harder for people to hide their dirt.

Quincy was great, he had an incredible life and did incredible things. But do your thing, I won't begrudge you.

In following the P Diddy mess, one thing struck me more than anything else at the press conference, the lead speaker/agent quoted a P Diddy victim who said, "I could have accomplished something great" and it felt kind of validating for me. I was never quite put in a casting couch situation but many, many times I've been absolutely fucked over because I wouldn't kiss ass or allow myself to be disrespected. We can be mad at guys like Quincy but we really should be mad at the way everything is done and has been done for a very long time. Until we just get rid of that, it'll go on and on. And I'll even say that most of the people who gave me a hard time wouldn't even qualify as evil, just petty, mean and vindictive. I wouldn't even be so dramatic as to call them evil.
 
you a cold motherfucker, but I like that.

The folks over on lipstick alley are having a field day. But really, we don't know what the guy did or didn't do. The only reason we can even say things aren't total wacko conspiracies these days is because enough people have been caught in the last ten years and it's just plain getting harder for people to hide their dirt.

Quincy was great, he had an incredible life and did incredible things. But do your thing, I won't begrudge you.

In following the P Diddy mess, one thing struck me more than anything else at the press conference, the lead speaker/agent quoted a P Diddy victim who said, "I could have accomplished something great" and it felt kind of validating for me. I was never quite put in a casting couch situation but many, many times I've been absolutely fucked over because I wouldn't kiss ass or allow myself to be disrespected. We can be mad at guys like Quincy but we really should be mad at the way everything is done and has been done for a very long time. Until we just get rid of that, it'll go on and on. And I'll even say that most of the people who gave me a hard time wouldn't even qualify as evil, just petty, mean and vindictive. I wouldn't even be so dramatic as to call them evil.
So, evil things done by folks who also did "great things" are not evil in your opinion?

Nah, again I disagree.
I am mad at how this world operates in general, or as you said how everything is done and has been done...

That's why I wear a tinfoil hat, bro!
 
So, evil things done by folks who also did "great things" are not evil in your opinion?

Nah, again I disagree.
I am mad at how this world operates in general, or as you said how everything is done and has been done...

That's why I wear a tinfoil hat, bro!
I guess it depends, things should be considered. Just look at all the fans of Kobe that that one wench made angry after he died. When people are hurting like that, and that's not even to get into the family who actually did know and love these people, I just think it's not a context to be bringing those things up sometimes.

I said I didn't like Quincy for that very reason, before that, I loved Quincy, didn't really know about any rumors or anything but people show themselves at times like that. As crazy as MJ was, he was a part of my childhood and a musical influence. It just was not a good time for someone to who claimed to be his friend to say the things he did. I never forgave him, and, once again, I can say it, what goes around..,

Insofar as the rumors, I really don't know much about them but it wouldn't surprise me one bit. Lets just hope that when we die, if anyone cares, that they don't just dredge up the worst things any of us have ever done and if we have loved ones or people that liked us, that they don't have to hear it.
 
Nah, I disagree.
I believe he did those things.
The whole entertainment/showbiz industry is built on this.

He couldn't have "achieved those heights" without being a part of their "elite p3do" ring participation.
Yeah cause everyone's a :eek::eek::eek::eek:, including you. There aren't even specific rumors about Quincy, you're just coming up with shit out of your ass.
 
I never heard Pac was bi, the interests in drama/theater and pics of his leotard of course will be enough for some people. There were rumors that he was raped in prison but that's not what I'd call bi.

The quote on Quincy has been on so many sites over the years but I have never ever found where the hell it came from so I kinda don't give it credibility. And why would Quincy be making moves on a guy trying to date his daughter? But, sickies aren't known for having good boundaries, that's what makes them sick.
I grew up in the era where in the rap world and in the hood, being gay was NOT a thing. I grew up with Busta Rhymes, The guys from Tribe, De La Soul, EPMD etc. They always said some dudes were meant to stay away from because they were on the DL. There were rumors back in the day of one or two of the guys in Whodini. Mr. Cee and Afrika Bambaataa got busted. Rumors about Dr. Dre. Lots of people say 2 Pac paid some tolls on the way up. There were rumors he was friends with Jada Smith bc she was a Lesbian and they used to go to gay clubs with Queen Latifah.
 
I grew up in the era where in the rap world and in the hood, being gay was NOT a thing. I grew up with Busta Rhymes, The guys from Tribe, De La Soul, EPMD etc. They always said some dudes were meant to stay away from because they were on the DL. There were rumors back in the day of one or two of the guys in Whodini. Mr. Cee and Afrika Bambaataa got busted. Rumors about Dr. Dre. Lots of people say 2 Pac paid some tolls on the way up. There were rumors he was friends with Jada Smith bc she was a Lesbian and they used to go to gay clubs with Queen Latifah.
Afrika Bambatta is definitely one, Dre I heard rumors about. Pac having to do some casting couch isn't impossible but seems so at odds with his image, which means nothing in the first place. I don't doubt it.

I can only speak for myself, I just could not even get to the point where I allowed anyone to disrespect me in the first place, I always had a hard time with that. To the point where I have thought that maybe it's just me. I hate being controlled and subverted and that has hurt me back when I was trying to get somewhere in the fight world, in the academic and work worlds. You cannot be on a job and have another grown man insult you and keep the job if you react, you just can't. That's not something I control. It's depressing for sure because, I promise you, those guys who do give things up (women too) have to live with it and once it's in them, what do they do? They find the closest mf'er to do the same shit to them in an attempt to fix the damage. Like I said, being mad at just the people who do any sort of deviant shit is really being mad at the wrong thing.

It always falls on deaf ears though, I've tried to warn people and tell them about pitfalls and to demand better treatment and it's never worked. Truth is, most humans are just weak and easily controlled inspite of what they want to portray. Interstingly, the fighters I've been around have happened to be the most easily manipulated and controlled. And lets not get started on how women are the avenue for where many men are just totally broken in one way or the other. Lots of traps out there and no way to avoid them all.
 
I grew up in the era where in the rap world and in the hood, being gay was NOT a thing. I grew up with Busta Rhymes, The guys from Tribe, De La Soul, EPMD etc. They always said some dudes were meant to stay away from because they were on the DL. There were rumors back in the day of one or two of the guys in Whodini. Mr. Cee and Afrika Bambaataa got busted. Rumors about Dr. Dre. Lots of people say 2 Pac paid some tolls on the way up. There were rumors he was friends with Jada Smith bc she was a Lesbian and they used to go to gay clubs with Queen Latifah.

Everybody seems to have had at least a dozen or two 2pac stories a year since hes died. People just cant stop talking about him. Even one of the guys he once had beef with ended up making the best documentary about his life. There must be at least 4 different versions of his encounter with Nas and a dozen people who dissed him years and years after he died. He apparently bedded the whos who of hotties at that time. He dumped Madonna ffs. Guy is prolific and a certified legend if you ask me. Lot of seemingly envious people who continue to try and slandar the guy. Even Candace Owens couldnt help but talk about him recently.

Yet when he was alive, you could count on 2 fingers the people who had the nerve to say anything. I mean, he must have been the most hardcore performimg arts student ever to have everyone so shook, they had to wait till he was dead for years to tell tales.

Lol
 
Everybody seems to have had at least a dozen or two 2pac stories a year since hes died. People just cant stop talking about him. Even one of the guys he once had beef with ended up making the best documentary about his life. There must be at least 4 different versions of his encounter with Nas and a dozen people who dissed him years and years after he died. He apparently bedded the whos who of hotties at that time. He dumped Madonna ffs. Guy is prolific and a certified legend if you ask me. Lot of seemingly envious people who continue to try and slandar the guy. Even Candace Owens couldnt help but talk about him recently.

Yet when he was alive, you could count on 2 fingers the people who had the nerve to say anything. I mean, he must have been the most hardcore performimg arts student ever to have everyone so shook, they had to wait till he was dead for years to tell tales.

Lol
my take on him is that he was a brilliant guy, raised in the perfect environment to maximize his intelligence and gift for reading society.

Lots of things make no sense though, him acting the thug was pretty much what got him killed. Many people have said that it was a posture which he picked up after Juice. The rape situation, I don't know what happened but what I believe happened was that he was present but just did not want to stand up for the woman because his pals would ostracize him. I don't believe his story that he was asleep and he probably did not rape her or even assault her but he did not stand up for her. Just a stupid situation to put himself in.

The worst part about all of that hip hop mess is that you got every young knucklehead thinking that being an overemotional hothead is the way to be a man. It's not, that's more bitch behavior than man behavior, that's why so many boys that act like that in the first place had no daddy around growing up.

America has a lot of problems with males and masculinity that are just a waste of everyone's time and waste of lives. People shooting each other for a traffic altercation or being called a name. It's prevalent and it's just stupid. I've been around some real fighters in my life and to my knowledge, very, very few acted like that. If they can be cool and non-confrontational in public, anyone can.
 
my take on him is that he was a brilliant guy, raised in the perfect environment to maximize his intelligence and gift for reading society.

Lots of things make no sense though, him acting the thug was pretty much what got him killed. Many people have said that it was a posture which he picked up after Juice. The rape situation, I don't know what happened but what I believe happened was that he was present but just did not want to stand up for the woman because his pals would ostracize him. I don't believe his story that he was asleep and he probably did not rape her or even assault her but he did not stand up for her. Just a stupid situation to put himself in.

The worst part about all of that hip hop mess is that you got every young knucklehead thinking that being an overemotional hothead is the way to be a man. It's not, that's more bitch behavior than man behavior, that's why so many boys that act like that in the first place had no daddy around growing up.

America has a lot of problems with males and masculinity that are just a waste of everyone's time and waste of lives. People shooting each other for a traffic altercation or being called a name. It's prevalent and it's just stupid. I've been around some real fighters in my life and to my knowledge, very, very few acted like that. If they can be cool and non-confrontational in public, anyone can.

I think theres plenty of finer points we are missing here or dont understand fully. For one, sure, he was educated by his mom and taught to be an avid reader and devourer of knowledge. He was also taught to be militant and weary of authority figues such as police, politicians, etc. Even though he went to a performing arts school for a moment, he was also raised up in ghetto environments without a stable father figure and a mother battling crack addiction. So even though from a young age he was taught all these great things, somehwere along the line things started to unravel and fall apart. Lot of confusion and back against the wall scenarios and he hasnt even hit adolescense yet.

Hes trying to be good but is constantly thrown into the depths of hell. The mind at this stage is not mature enough to be able to handle all these things coming at you at once.

Insert fame.

He somehow crawls out of the system most people never get out of and is now starting to come into his own. Problem is, when he begins rapping about social and politically charged issues, he becomes targeted by pliticians, cops, even feds. Seems at every turn theres problems. Even other rappers in the early to mid 90s would reference 2pac in rhymes and in film regarding his run ins and how "real" he was. Pre Deathrow.

Should he have affiliated himself with goons? Probably not, but based off who he was and a part of how he was raised, he identified with them as his people. He felt comfortable around them. Remember his age here..

Early 20s. Still naive, still impressionable and learning.

Because of his fame up to this point, there was envy and jealousy which came with it. How do you handle all of these things at that age?

What happened with the rape has been contested numerous times since. Even the lady who claimed rape had shady interviews since and has been refuted by experts.

Quad was a set up by known affiliates of sean combs, these are all facts now which can be verified. Jimmy Henchman who was also a friend of Puffs and apparently with him that day admitted to wanting to teach Pac a lesson. Admitted to setting up the robbery and shooting. Puff was also extremey jealous of pacs relationship and influence on biggie. Biggie 99.9% had nothing to do with shit. He was just a victim of circumstance and association unfortunately.

Pac was also known to be loyal as fck so when he felt his loyalty was broken and after being shot, imagine the headspin. Suge saves him and bails him out and we a know the kind of life he represented. Pac by all accounts didnt wanna join deathrow. They even offered to sign him before quad and he declined. He did it cause no one else stepped up and a guy like him would die in prison. Hes a free spirit not meant to be caged.

So he was loyal. To suge, to anything they stood for. Suges beefs were his. He worked his ass off to finish 3 albums cause that was the deal. He was loyal but simply wanted to fulfill his deal and bounce.

Unfortunately and coincidentally, he died literally days after completing what would be his 3rd album, Makaveli.

Biggie by known accounts also started a record label outside of badboy with lance un rivera and didnt have the relationship with puff that was portrayed to us by the media. He died not long after completeing his sophmore album. In LA. After being coaxed into going by Puff. Literally months after 2pac died.

What I see here is a case of young people being steered in wrong directions while facing all types of crazy that the average person would off themselves trying to navigate.

When I look at what was achieved, it was monumental. Nothing short of incredible.

You see, the lives of some of these people are way, way more complex than any of us could ever imagine. Some people dig deep and are more educated. Some simply feed off the surface and come to surface level conclusions.

When you look at the full picture and not a distorted and torn image, it makes way more sense.
 
I think theres plenty of finer points we are missing here or dont understand fully. For one, sure, he was educated by his mom and taught to be an avid reader and devourer of knowledge. He was also taught to be militant and weary of authority figues such as police, politicians, etc. Even though he went to a performing arts school for a moment, he was also raised up in ghetto environments without a stable father figure and a mother battling crack addiction. So even though from a young age he was taught all these great things, somehwere along the line things started to unravel and fall apart. Lot of confusion and back against the wall scenarios and he hasnt even hit adolescense yet.

Hes trying to be good but is constantly thrown into the depths of hell. The mind at this stage is not mature enough to be able to handle all these things coming at you at once.

Insert fame.

He somehow crawls out of the system most people never get out of and is now starting to come into his own. Problem is, when he begins rapping about social and politically charged issues, he becomes targeted by pliticians, cops, even feds. Seems at every turn theres problems. Even other rappers in the early to mid 90s would reference 2pac in rhymes and in film regarding his run ins and how "real" he was. Pre Deathrow.

Should he have affiliated himself with goons? Probably not, but based off who he was and a part of how he was raised, he identified with them as his people. He felt comfortable around them. Remember his age here..

Early 20s. Still naive, still impressionable and learning.

Because of his fame up to this point, there was envy and jealousy which came with it. How do you handle all of these things at that age?

What happened with the rape has been contested numerous times since. Even the lady who claimed rape had shady interviews since and has been refuted by experts.

Quad was a set up by known affiliates of sean combs, these are all facts now which can be verified. Jimmy Henchman who was also a friend of Puffs and apparently with him that day admitted to wanting to teach Pac a lesson. Admitted to setting up the robbery and shooting. Puff was also extremey jealous of pacs relationship and influence on biggie. Biggie 99.9% had nothing to do with shit. He was just a victim of circumstance and association unfortunately.

Pac was also known to be loyal as fck so when he felt his loyalty was broken and after being shot, imagine the headspin. Suge saves him and bails him out and we a know the kind of life he represented. Pac by all accounts didnt wanna join deathrow. They even offered to sign him before quad and he declined. He did it cause no one else stepped up and a guy like him would die in prison. Hes a free spirit not meant to be caged.

So he was loyal. To suge, to anything they stood for. Suges beefs were his. He worked his ass off to finish 3 albums cause that was the deal. He was loyal but simply wanted to fulfill his deal and bounce.

Unfortunately and coincidentally, he died literally days after completing what would be his 3rd album, Makaveli.

Biggie by known accounts also started a record label outside of badboy with lance un rivera and didnt have the relationship with puff that was portrayed to us by the media. He died not long after completeing his sophmore album. In LA. After being coaxed into going by Puff. Literally months after 2pac died.

What I see here is a case of young people being steered in wrong directions while facing all types of crazy that the average person would off themselves trying to navigate.

When I look at what was achieved, it was monumental. Nothing short of incredible.

You see, the lives of some of these people are way, way more complex than any of us could ever imagine. Some people dig deep and are more educated. Some simply feed off the surface and come to surface level conclusions.

When you look at the full picture and not a distorted and torn image, it makes way more sense.
I've watched a lot of tupac docu's and associated folks who knew him interviews. I can only give my impressions because I just wasn't there. I could be wrong about alot as could so many people who've spoken on him could be wrong.

He created a lot of his own problems and his own enemies. One female journalist (forget her name, think she was a Vibe writer) said "he was a little crazy". Now, that might be it in a nutshell because you get opportunities that he got and you don't have to posture like you never got a break because you did.

The company he kept was a real problem and one a lot of people have, especially the famous. They mistake people who want to be around them for friends, which, even if they were, they weren't any good for him.

As far as the beefs, again, that was one of those things that lady referred to as "a little crazy" you don't just go jumping into things like that without knowing or being from there. Ice-T spoke on how he was really nervous about Pac getting involved in stuff he knew nothing about.
As far as his 3 album deal with Suge, I doubt Suge would have let him go easy. And BTW, I don't know anything about Biggie but some guy came out recently and said Puff had him killed because he was trying to write under a pseudoynym without having to deal with Puff.

Either way, it's some toxic shit and Pac would have probably lived longer if he'd just told Suge to go to hell.
 
I've watched a lot of tupac docu's and associated folks who knew him interviews. I can only give my impressions because I just wasn't there. I could be wrong about alot as could so many people who've spoken on him could be wrong.

He created a lot of his own problems and his own enemies. One female journalist (forget her name, think she was a Vibe writer) said "he was a little crazy". Now, that might be it in a nutshell because you get opportunities that he got and you don't have to posture like you never got a break because you did.

The company he kept was a real problem and one a lot of people have, especially the famous. They mistake people who want to be around them for friends, which, even if they were, they weren't any good for him.

As far as the beefs, again, that was one of those things that lady referred to as "a little crazy" you don't just go jumping into things like that without knowing or being from there. Ice-T spoke on how he was really nervous about Pac getting involved in stuff he knew nothing about.
As far as his 3 album deal with Suge, I doubt Suge would have let him go easy. And BTW, I don't know anything about Biggie but some guy came out recently and said Puff had him killed because he was trying to write under a pseudoynym without having to deal with Puff.

Either way, it's some toxic shit and Pac would have probably lived longer if he'd just told Suge to go to hell.

Ya, a lot of what ifs and poor decisions all around. I can only imagine being that age and having that much attention on you, positive and negative at all times. Plus, there is constantly new info being brought to our attention as to how much people wanted the guy muted or worse. The feds who themselves monitored him apparently also released info that claimed he along with eazy e were being exorted by a certain group. Crazy shit.

It is the Feds so i dunno how much of their shit we can believe. As far as reporters calling him crazy....well shit , he was a tad crazy at times but if I was going through an ounce of what he was at that age, id be a lot more batshit crazy for sure.
 
Ya, a lot of what ifs and poor decisions all around. I can only imagine being that age and having that much attention on you, positive and negative at all times. Plus, there is constantly new info being brought to our attention as to how much people wanted the guy muted or worse. The feds who themselves monitored him apparently also released info that claimed he along with eazy e were being exorted by a certain group. Crazy shit.

It is the Feds so i dunno how much of their shit we can believe. As far as reporters calling him crazy....well shit , he was a tad crazy at times but if I was going through an ounce of what he was at that age, id be a lot more batshit crazy for sure.
Any way you cut it it's just a big waste and he had more than enough intelligence and more than enough opportunity to do better. I'm a fan of the guy, not his music or the image. But, as anyone does, there will be mistakes and yes, youth is a big part of it all.

Hanging out with guys is not something I've ever really liked or done. Joe Lewis, the kickboxer, once said he'd never been in a streetfight and explained it as him not hanging out with men. Guys get in a group and they change. Pac hung out with idiots and the most likely scenario I could see with the rape accusation was that he was there, didn't want to speak up or be on the outs with his boys and let that woman get used. Then, he ends up in prison and as anyone in prison would, he wanted out. That left him open to a knucklehead to leverage him into being in the later positions he was in.

Fame is a part of it, ya, it's killed alot of people. All that attention is going to bring people who "love" you and people who hate you, and worse, they all want to use you for something.
 
Seeing celebs that are the same age as my parents die off puts it into a small package of perspective for me.
 
Why is it when famous black people die, people start talking that they were homos?
 
Why is it when famous black people die, people start talking that they were homos?
don't know, it's odd but I think you're right. Not all of them but a lot of straight claiming ones. Quincy, Marvin,Smokey (he's not dead but I heard a rumor about him and Barry, which, I don't believe), Malcolm X, MLK, Sugar Ray Robinson,Miles Davis, Richard Pryor,Paul Mooney, i'm gonna stop because that's plenty. Then, we have the molestors, MJ, Paul Mooney and QJ. Everybody got skeletons in their closets, only most of us have anonymity, but.., I don't think the average person has skeletons like the famous. MIne don't even compare, how bout yours?
 
don't know, it's odd but I think you're right. Not all of them but a lot of straight claiming ones. Quincy, Marvin,Smokey (he's not dead but I heard a rumor about him and Barry, which, I don't believe), Malcolm X, MLK, Sugar Ray Robinson,Miles Davis, Richard Pryor,Paul Mooney, i'm gonna stop because that's plenty. Then, we have the molestors, MJ, Paul Mooney and QJ. Everybody got skeletons in their closets, only most of us have anonymity, but.., I don't think the average person has skeletons like the famous. MIne don't even compare, how bout yours?
Getting dubs without even dropping the N or the F word.
 
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