Crime Riot+Looting in Ferguson, MO

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Captain Davis said:
Sure, but fighting an on duty police officer is a crap shoot. I wouldn't recommend it. I would suggest obey the officers orders. If you feel like you are mistreated, go through the process and file a complaint. It might be a pain in the ass, but it certainly beats the possible alternative.
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What if the police officer's story is not correct? Would you change your mind? It seems to me, based on what we've seen since the incident, that it's at least suspect.
 
Ayin said:
It's crazy, even in this thread it's people talking about how this community needs to do this and that community needs to stop doing that, people ranting and raving about how this is all the fault of "Liberals", and now who jumped to what conclusion with new evidence.

The Police (at least it seems like it right now, if this has been shown to be incorrect I apologize) went out and started going after journalists as soon as this became a public issue. Teargassing people covering the events and confiscating their equipment? Detaining reporters who are REPORTING on the events? How can this part not be dominating the conversation at this point? Heck, at this point it seems like no one is even going to care about this part of it.
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That troubled me more than the initial event honestly... AN individual shooting in the heat of the moment (whatever the details and facts may show now and later) is one thing. The aftermath where things are usually planned out and orchestrated before hand seems like a scary direction to head in. To silence to press and basically target the media is not the american way ive always though about things.
 
MuyThaiTom said:
Don't protest cops because they are public servants trying to protect you. We make cops out to be the bad guys then wonder why only people with chips on their shoulder want to be cops.

Disproportionate to how big the problem actually is. Everyones sign says "don't shoot me" "I'm black don't shoot me" "hands up don't shoot". Like I said, in the last four years >1000 people have been gunned down and murdered in the greater STL area. One person was possibly murdered by cops and this garned more response than the other 1000 murders combined. Shrewd logic.
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With all due respect, I think the ones protesting are in far better position than you to decide how big the problem of police brutality and abuse of authority in their community is, especially when you're saying that the same organization tear gassing and stealing journalists' equipment only ever ''try to protect you.''

MuyThaiTom said:
Yes, a letter would be more appropriate than a riot.
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Or protests. Or indeed anything that would garner any significant attention to the issue. That seems to be a bee in your bonnet.
 
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Prokofievian said:
With all due respect, I think the ones protesting are in far better position than you to decide how big the problem of police brutality and abuse of authority in their community is, especially when you're saying that the same organization tear gassing and stealing journalists' equipment only ever ''try to protect you.''
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If the 1 in 1000 Statistic is true, that cop made the town a safer place for a short time until they started to riot.
 
Prokofievian said:
Disproportionate to how big the problem actually is. Everyones sign says "don't shoot me" "I'm black don't shoot me" "hands up don't shoot". Like I said, in the last four years >1000 people have been gunned down and murdered in the greater STL area. One person was possibly murdered by cops and this garned more response than the other 1000 murders combined. Shrewd logic.
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With all due respect, I think the ones protesting are in far better position than you to decide how big the problem of police brutality and abuse of authority in their community is,

Ahh yes, anyone who makes any claim about what they feel is "in a better position". Why would anyone challenge anybodies ideas? How silly of me.

especially when you're saying that the same organization tear gassing and stealing journalists' equipment only ever ''try to protect you.''

I'm sure lots of things deviated from standard protocol. When riots occur S happens. I'm certainly not going to try to nominate Ferguson for an award on riot control.

Or protests. Or indeed anything that would garner any significant attention to the issue. That seems to be a bee in your bonnet

The bees in my bonnet are (1) the lack of intellectual dishonesty in the protestors and news sources with an agenda to push. It is people trying to push an agenda or internal narrative while not applying standards evenly. (2) Widespread confirmation bias and lack of objective analysis. This one issue is a sympton of a major cultural and societal problem that goes across to all races, groups and political parties. (3) The cultural portrayal of our nation's police officers based on incidents that don't represent the overwhelming majority of police action.

I'm not trying to demonize just the urban STL people who I sincerely wish the best for, I just think they aren't very logical in identifying and prioritizing their plights (which to me seems to be a major problem for other geographical areas, demographics, etc as well)
 
Wanderlei4Life said:
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It has been confirmed him and his friend did rob the gas station. Missouri law states that any theft that uses force is 2nd degree felony. Which gives probable cause for a police officer to stop and arrest suspect. If suspect fights back, police can use deadly force.
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Please tell me that isn't the same store that was looted and burnt..

If it is the same store I think we should ban all police brutality against minority threads.
 
MuyThaiTom said:
With all due respect, I think the ones protesting are in far better position than you to decide how big the problem of police brutality and abuse of authority in their community is,

Ahh yes, anyone who makes any claim about what they feel is "in a better position". Why would anyone challenge anybodies ideas? How silly of me.

especially when you're saying that the same organization tear gassing and stealing journalists' equipment only ever ''try to protect you.''

I'm sure lots of things deviated from standard protocol. When riots occur S happens. I'm certainly not going to try to nominate Ferguson for an award on riot control.

Or protests. Or indeed anything that would garner any significant attention to the issue. That seems to be a bee in your bonnet

The bees in my bonnet are (1) the lack of intellectual dishonesty in the protestors and news sources with an agenda to push. It is people trying to push an agenda or internal narrative while not applying standards evenly. (2) Widespread confirmation bias and lack of objective analysis. This one issue is a sympton of a major cultural and societal problem that goes across to all races, groups and political parties. (3) The cultural portrayal of our nation's police officers based on incidents that don't represent the overwhelming majority of police action.

I'm not trying to demonize just the urban STL people who I sincerely wish the best for, I just think they aren't very logical in identifying and prioritizing their plights (which to me seems to be a major problem for other geographical areas, demographics, etc as well)
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When people protest criminal actions (such as gang shootings) they are usually aiming the protest at getting government/law enforcement to respond to the problem.
Because generally criminals don't pay much attention to protests.
You can see how inviting more action from law enforcement would be a little inappropriate under these circumstances, right?
 
Jack V Savage said:
What if the police officer's story is not correct? Would you change your mind? It seems to me, based on what we've seen since the incident, that it's at least suspect.
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If it was a straight up murder yes, but anytime someone fights with PD, they are rolling the dice. The altercation is not disputed though, so he played the game and lost.
 
Prokofievian said:
New police chief of Ferguson MO walks with protestors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/ron-johnson-ferguson_n_5680351.html
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Ahh yeah, huffington post. Who have an article titled, "it doesn't matter if Brown robbed(or assaulted)" A few days ago they were calling for the police officers history (which is clean). I'm sure if the officer had a record of police brutality they would run an article "It doesn't matter if the Officer has a disciplinary history.'

The site that is now going to front page every and any incident in all of america that is any way paints a police officer in a bad light.

They have just as bad spin as Fox News.
 
MuyThaiTom said:
Ahh yeah, huffington post. Who have an article titled, "it doesn't matter if Brown robbed(or assaulted)" A few days ago they were calling for the police officers history (which is clean). I'm sure if the officer had a record of police brutality they would run an article "It doesn't matter if the Officer has a disciplinary history.'

The site that is now going to front page every and any incident in all of america that is any way paints a police officer in a bad light.

They have just as bad spin as Fox News.
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In what way did they spin the above story?
 
MuyThaiTom said:
The bees in my bonnet are (1) the lack of intellectual dishonesty in the protestors and news sources with an agenda to push. It is people trying to push an agenda or internal narrative while not applying standards evenly. (2) Widespread confirmation bias and lack of objective analysis. This one issue is a sympton of a major cultural and societal problem that goes across to all races, groups and political parties. (3) The cultural portrayal of our nation's police officers based on incidents that don't represent the overwhelming majority of police action.

I'm not trying to demonize just the urban STL people who I sincerely wish the best for, I just think they aren't very logical in identifying and prioritizing their plights (which to me seems to be a major problem for other geographical areas, demographics, etc as well)
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''Excuse me, urbanites of st. louis, but did you run a durbin-wu-hausman test for fixed versus random effects in your panel of police brutality data? I'm just really concerned about objectivity and want what's best for you. In the meantime, you can shut the fuck up.''
 
MuyThaiTom said:
Ahh yeah, huffington post. Who have an article titled, "it doesn't matter if Brown robbed(or assaulted)" A few days ago they were calling for the police officers history (which is clean). I'm sure if the officer had a record of police brutality they would run an article "It doesn't matter if the Officer has a disciplinary history.'

The site that is now going to front page every and any incident in all of america that is any way paints a police officer in a bad light.

They have just as bad spin as Fox News.
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The story is actually a positive one towards the Ferguson PD's change of tactics. Not a negative one.

On a side note, I'm at the Town Center on a weekly basis. One of my biggest clients has an office there. Despite Il Fornaio, Morton's, Jackson's, Clyde's, etc.....I still find Uncle Julio's to be my favorite spot!
 
Prokofievian said:
Yeah, he definitely thinks Brown got what was coming to him despite the show of solidarity.
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I never said what he thought, that's what I think. I don't know how he feels about it, but he's doing a good job of defuzing the people he has been around.
 
Captain Davis said:
He's trying to calm the masses. As a black man he can do it. Its not likely the white chief we know of could get away with it.
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There is something to be said for police being of the same ethnicity as those they are supposed to serve.

It's all about perception and trust. It's the same everywhere, whether it be a Chinese community, East Indian community, etc. If the majority of a community is one ethnicity and the police are another, then they will typically face trust and perception issues.
 
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