Rickson Gracie FAQ

[knoxpk]

Why is Rickson and BJJ practioners for that matter so full of themselves?

Possible heated topic...

Gracies, specifically, have a tribal mentality that comes from the fact that they are a clan, bred for and built around jiu jitsu. Make no mistake, Carlos had as many kids as possible, and so did Helio, with the intention of building a strong clan to represent and spread the art they developed.

As they grew up, it was the Gracies versus the world. Nobody knew them or their art. They challenged anyone and everyone. In newspapers, in gym visits, at the beach, it didn't matter.

Those who follow MMA now think of it as a sport and the Gracies, as arrogant douchebags, but you forget that not even 20 years ago MMA as we know it did not exist and they were STILL fighting on backyards or against "masters" of other arts to show their jiu jitsu.

And now that jiu jitsu has been shown, accepted, and is respected, do you really think that they will be humble about it?

Look at what they have done. One fight at a time. One challenge at a time. All of them: Carlson, Rickson, Rolls, Helio, Carlos, Carlos Jr., Relson, Rolker, George..... they all fought for this. And they earned the right to be full of themselves, especially when they put on a gi.

Awesome answer.

So would you say they are sort of "married" to a style for lack of a better term?
Even though the playing feild has somewhat been leveled and everyone is forced to cross train do you consider most GJJ fighters "style centric"?

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Gracies, specifically, have a tribal mentality that comes from the fact that they are a clan, bred for and built around jiu jitsu. Make no mistake, Carlos had as many kids as possible, and so did Helio, with the intention of building a strong clan to represent and spread the art they developed.

As they grew up, it was the Gracies versus the world. Nobody knew them or their art. They challenged anyone and everyone. In newspapers, in gym visits, at the beach, it didn't matter.

Those who follow MMA now think of it as a sport and the Gracies, as arrogant douchebags, but you forget that not even 20 years ago MMA as we know it did not exist and they were STILL fighting on backyards or against "masters" of other arts to show their jiu jitsu.

And now that jiu jitsu has been shown, accepted, and is respected, do you really think that they will be humble about it?

Look at what they have done. One fight at a time. One challenge at a time. All of them: Carlson, Rickson, Rolls, Helio, Carlos, Carlos Jr., Relson, Rolker, George..... they all fought for this. And they earned the right to be full of themselves, especially when they put on a gi.

Great post! Leaving out Renzo and Royce, even Rorion is blasphemy!:icon_chee

Also in a weird way in regards to being the dominant family of grappling i kinda feel like the Gracies did what Bruce Lee did to all the old masters of Wing Chung. Meaning Bruce went and taught the "Westerners" all the secrets that helped make the Easterners so unbeatable in martial arts. Once the bigger stronger Westerners learned the moves, they became to much for the smaller man.

I feel like the Gracie's (for different reason's) kinda did the same thing....... I mean think if the Gracies didn't teach anyone but people in there "clan". They would still be kicking the sh!t out of most everyone in the world.

I mean people would have caught up and tried to emulate what they were doing, but really, if they were that selfish in regards to there art they would still be King of the Hill today.

**think about it**:icon_surp

 

[DonkeyKong]

Point in case: if the Gracies hadnt taught jiu jitsu, do you think there would be a HW in the world capable of beating Roger Gracie with the possible exception of Fedor?

All of them would have been submitted almost instantly if they were oblivious to the existence of jiu jitsu and the efficacy of submission grappling in general.

 

[YeahBee]

Point in case: if the Gracies hadnt taught jiu jitsu, do you think there would be a HW in the world capable of beating Roger Gracie with the possible exception of Fedor?

All of them would have been submitted almost instantly if they were oblivious to the existence of jiu jitsu and the efficacy of submission grappling in general.

that is a load of crock

Exposure wise sure. MMA as we know it may not have been born but other guys have become great grapplers without the Gracies, without BJJ

I practise it, I love it but c'mon.

 

[DonkeyKong]

that is a load of crock

Exposure wise sure. MMA as we know it may not have been born but other guys have become great grapplers without the Gracies, without BJJ

I practise it, I love it but c'mon.

True. But only after the Gracies brought to the spotlight the fact that layman in grappling can and will possibly and easily be defeated by a smaller, weaker grappler.

Newaza, kosen, shooto, catch, all existed before. But nothing like GJJ. And nothing like what it became, and nothing as relevant as the revolution it brought along.

Were they the best grapplers in the world at the time? Rickson, Rolls, maybe would be close to the top. The others? Possibly not. When you figure into it some sambo, kosen, and catch phenoms.

But if it weren't for the Gracies' struggle to bring jiu jitsu to light, if they had hidden it, I have no doubt that Roger would have little trouble defeating most any fighter of equal size in the world.

Even if they were familiar with grappling, coming from other styles, there simply wasn't enough emphasis on grappling to achieve the level of skill that the Gracies had developed, and defeat by submission would be likely, especially under no-time-limit rules.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

that is a load of crock

Exposure wise sure. MMA as we know it may not have been born but other guys have become great grapplers without the Gracies, without BJJ

.

Like who?

I think CroCop, Fedor, Brock, Cain, Karelin, Carwin, basically anyone with great takedown defense would have a shot. But not much of one. We have to understand that by fighting and winning today your "style" gets out to the masses and people can gameplan.

Shit, Keith Hackney gave Royce a run for his money back in the day utilizing a sprawl n brawl tacking and he had 0 wrestling as far as i know.

 

[SMillard]

Point in case: if the Gracies hadnt taught jiu jitsu, do you think there would be a HW in the world capable of beating Roger Gracie with the possible exception of Fedor?

All of them would have been submitted almost instantly if they were oblivious to the existence of jiu jitsu and the efficacy of submission grappling in general.

If the Gracies didn't teach it, someone else would have come up with something similar whether it be a more newaza based Judo system, Sambo or adaptation of catch wrestling. Most likely all three if not more systems would have adapted to meet the challenge. The fact is whenever someone sees something working they will either learn it, copy it or adjust to it. Fighting is fighting whether it is one on one or country against country. Innovation is an inevitable and so is adaptation and modification of what works. Especially with nationalistic pride the way it is there would have been adaptation to beat the Gracies if they were winning but not teaching outsiders their system.

 

[DonkeyKong]

Like who?

I think CroCop, Fedor, Brock, Cain, Karelin, Carwin, basically anyone with great takedown defense would have a shot. But not much of one. We have to understand that by fighting and winning today your "style" gets out to the masses and people can gameplan.

Shit, Keith Hackney gave Royce a run for his money back in the day utilizing a sprawl n brawl tacking and he had 0 wrestling as far as i know.

I don't want to go any further in this speculation, I respect your opinions and I do believe this would go far, pointless as it may be. Allow me just to point out some last things and then I believe there is nothing else I can argue with in favor of my point of view.

Gameplanning is a factor, but without jiu jitsu specialists it would be hard to find someone with the adequate skill level in typical jiu jitsu strategy. Even guys who train in BJJ now and have gameplans, fail to stop the submission. Maia x Sonnen is an example. Kosen, catch and sambo are grappling but quite different from BJJ. Efficient, yes, but knowledge of it has to be profound and profoundly creative to deal with grappling you haven't seen before.

The difficulty BJJ guys have with catch wrestlers illustrates this, as they have zero info on the style, whereas any catch guy can know exactly what BJJ is about by going to any one of thousands of gyms. Sakuraba took full advantage of this by using his skills and creative genius to bypass and nullify jiu jitsu in ways they never imagined. (Giving up his back to set up a kimura? Preposterous! )Only it would work in the opposite direction: with others incapable of stopping the unknown skills of high-level jiu jitsu.

It is the sport of submission wrestling that melded it all into the principle of "whatever works on the floor". So all styles are "discovering" each other and borrowing things, making them more and more similar ( and effective) by the day.

As for the athletes you mentioned and their ability to stop, say, Roger Gracie if they were absolutely unfamiliar with BJJ:

CroCop is doubtful.... he was a kickboxer. He wouldn't know what to do on the ground.

Fedor is a sambo savant, I'm sure he would excel no matter what. He really is hors concours.

Brock and Cain, unlikely. Mir beat Brock, and that's because Brock had trained specifically against sub. Royce managed to submit Dan Severn, a very accomplished wrestler, despite being much smaller.

Karelin... any hyperbole is an understatement for that man. Nothing short of choking him out would work on him, cranking a submission would be impossible. I would love to see Karelin x Roger but that is too far in the realm of speculation :icon_conf

Can any person even beat this monster of a man? Unless he has a glass jaw ( I doubt it) I don't think there is a human being in recent human history who can defeat Karelin in an MMA fight.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

I don't want to go any further in this speculation, I respect your opinions and I do believe this would go far, pointless as it may be. Allow me just to point out some last things and then I believe there is nothing else I can argue with in favor of my point of view.

Good stuff! I kinda missed the whole "if they were oblivious to the existence of jiu jitsu and the efficacy of submission grappling in general." part of your post and just rushed in with the sprawl n brawl theory.

You gotta give me some cred for pointing out Keith Hackney vs. Royce tho.:icon_chee

 

[DonkeyKong]

My friend you are preaching to the choir! I think Keith Hackney is awesome, when I rented that VHS I was rooting for him, ( I trained kung fu at the time, my best friend trained in BJJ, and I thought he was such an arrogant douche saying that the Gracies won all UFCs, etc) and I think that if he was a blue belt in BJJ he would have taken the whole damn tournament, thanks to his ferocity, athleticism, striking skills and Royce's average-at-best jiu jitsu game.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

I think Keith Hackney is awesome

potential friend for life.......

 

[SMillard]

Karelin... any hyperbole is an understatement for that man. Nothing short of choking him out would work on him, cranking a submission would be impossible. I would love to see Karelin x Roger but that is too far in the realm of speculation :icon_conf

Can any person even beat this monster of a man? Unless he has a glass jaw ( I doubt it) I don't think there is a human being in recent human history who can defeat Karelin in an MMA fight.

If Karelin has a glass jaw, I think it would be the high impact bullet proof shit they put on the windshields of armored cars.

 

[azulazul]

Why is Rickson and BJJ practioners for that matter so full of themselves?

I'm going to overstep my boundaries and say that if Rickson is indeed full of himself its because he can be. I am because it suits me and I can't really speak for the rest.

Now kindly limit your input to positive contributions that may allow for us to learn from one another.

 

[azulazul]

I would also like to hear about that[/QUOTE

This was my first time getting to train with Rickson, what I left with was a complete dressing down of what I thought was adequate technique. This is Helio-Jitsu redux meaning he has taken BJJ back to its roots: an effective method of self defense geared to exploit leverage and momentum in order to neutralize size and weight differences.

His Invisible Jiu-Jitsu concepts are geared towards simplifying aspects of the techniques employed that are not visible or perceivable by you, your opponent or both people.

Think Tweaks

Relson (in my experience limited experience) is focused on sharpening your killer instinct and helping you anticipate the submission so that your success ratio increases and you do not over commit and expose yourself to sweeps/reversals)

Royler (who I've trained with the most) Is just a display of technicality of encyclopedic proportions. What I'm about to say is in no way a put down, I mean it as a compliment, he is the person to go to if you want Humaita advise on how to improve your game for sport jiu-jitsu.

Rorion, Relson, and Rickson came up in the 80's when Globo and Company were partnering to bring an incredibly limited amount of tournaments. When Royce, Robin and Royler were competing there were way many more options therefor I think that Royler offers the best combination of technical acumen and tournament experience. I also consider him to be a phenomenal instructor for self-defense.

We were fortunate enough to also count with Renato Barreto assisting Master Rickson at the seminar this weekend. I've never seen so many overly confident black belts made to look foolish. Getting to learn and have him work with me one-on-one was both humbling and eye-opening.

 

[Oak]

Anyone know why pork is the only meat banned in the Gracie diet? I know a few of them don't eat any red meat at all, but pork was the only one originally banned. I'm wondering what the reasoning behind it was.

 

[Higher Learning]

Anyone know why pork is the only meat banned in the Gracie diet? I know a few of them don't eat any red meat at all, but pork was the only one originally banned. I'm wondering what the reasoning behind it was.

LMFAO at trying to find logic and/or reason in the gracie diet

 

[Cachimbo]

Yesterday in the world's broadcast Draculino talked about how amazing Rickson is. He said that maybe today Rickson might lose on points to these guys, but that his Jiu Jitsu has no comparison without time limits or tournament rules. He emphasized that he "felt" Rickson, he didn't just see him, so he knows what the guy's skill is like.

He said that Rickson will find out what area you are weak at, and eventually exploit that area whether it takes five minutes of half an hour. He finally said that he doesn't know if Kron will be another Rickson, because Rickson is like a Michael Jordan or a Pele, one in a million with the mentality, athleticism, determination. etc. but that Roger seems to be on his way to being the next Rickson.

 

[Oak]

LMFAO at trying to find logic and/or reason in the gracie diet

I actually thought there was a science to it, guess I'm naive.

 

[nefti]

the gracie diet was based on the science of the times. It is designed primarily to keep you from having digestive problems and stay healthy.

 

[Oak]

the gracie diet was based on the science of the times. It is designed primarily to keep you from having digestive problems and stay healthy.

Ya but what made him decide to ban pork? Most of the world finds it ok, except for Muslims. I'm wondering where he got that idea from.