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Rewatched islam charles

DrTrouble said:
Excellent point! Charles basically pulled guard on that first takedown. Tried to throw up a triangle but soon realized that wasn't going to work. Then proceeded to hold Islam hoping not to get hit by too many gnp. By the end of the round Charles knew his bottom game wasn't going to work and that's why he tried so hard to keep it standing in the 2nd. I mean why didn't he pull guard again if he was doing so well on the bottom cause he certainly was getting the worse of the standup?
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I can only think Islam's top pressure made him change his gameplan. He certainly looked a little lost in the second because surprisingly, Islam had the speed advantage standing.
 
balkanbomber85 said:
people forget, and the trolls ignore, the fact that AD was Charles´ 4th Championship fight in 17 months. The guy had a title fight every 4,3 months in average and asked for a small delay to be able to recover properly but the UFC refused. He never had enough time to enjoy his title, he never had time to recover 100% and to find some motivation for a new training camp.
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Ok, so if (when imo) Islam kicks his ass again, will you announce him the better fighter? Can't be any excuses this time, right?

I have no problem admitting if it goes the other way
 
fortheo said:
I never said charles was winning, so I don't know why you feel the need yo come to Islam's defense. Control time weighs less in the scoring criteria now a days. You're not even supposed to be allowed to sit in someone's guard and just go body body head anymore.

Like I said, islam had his heavy top control and some gnp, but it was mostly stifling top control without seeking to advance or even posture up and do real damage. Most of the GRAPPLING based offence came from charles, with exceptions to the throw, which was beautiful from islam.
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I think you might focusing on submission grappling and comparing their technical skills, tbh that’s irrelevant. The question is which one implements their grappling better as a weapon in mma? I don’t think anyone can really conclude their first fight was particularly close in any phase of the game, striking or grappling. Charles lost pretty soundly everywhere.
 
moosaev said:
I think you might focusing on submission grappling and comparing their technical skills, tbh that’s irrelevant. The question is which one implements their grappling better as a weapon in mma? I don’t think anyone can really conclude their first fight was particularly close in any phase of the game, striking or grappling. Charles lost pretty soundly everywhere.
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You're probably one of those guys that thought islam won 4 rounds against volk too lol. The mat grappling between islam and charles was competitive before charles got dropped like a sack of potatoes. Anyone who has a basic understanding of grappling knows this. Islam was playing a long game with his grappling -- his top pressure would have paid dividends as the fight progressed and he weighed on Charles, but if you look at round one's grappling on it's own, the grappling was competitive.
 
Dana's Moonface said:
Ok, so if (when imo) Islam kicks his ass again, will you announce him the better fighter? Can't be any excuses this time, right?

I have no problem admitting if it goes the other way
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why, we are in the same situation, Charles doesn't want a fight in October, aimed Nov or Dec but the UFC is probably forcing him by a) telling him there wont be another chance and/or b) throwing money until he accepts.
 
hswrestler said:
Oliveira did more damage on the ground and was able to get up quickly when he wasn't rocked. Oliveira has power but leaves himself open to counters
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People assume if you are on bottom there is nah chance of ever throwing any good strikes. Mousasi vs Mo is a great example of being on bottom and fucking up the dude on top. Niko/Randy Brown is the extreme example.
 
fortheo said:
People will not agree because they saw islam on top, which means he was winning to them. They also thought lee was winning on top of charles lol. The truth is that islam was in defense mode during a lot of the mat grappling exchanges and Charles's activity from bottom shut down most of Islam's ground and pound.

The problem was charles running into the same counter over and over on the feet.
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I think something similar will happen in the second fight too. Charles knows no other way, he will be throwing submission attempts and elbows the moment the fight hits the ground. Has there been a more offence orientated fighter than Charles in every facet of MMA? He's pure attack and pressure.

Islam has the style to negate Charles but it doesn’t necessarily mean he will win. He's always safety first. The leg attack on Islam was a win for Charles but some credit has to be given to Islam. He really knows when to disengage if he senses danger but also when to apply pressure.

Regardless of the first fight, difficult to pick a winner because both are dangerous in their own ways.
 
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Let’s recount the fight how it really happened. Islam landed a good straight left, Charles pulled guard, Charles threw up 2 triangle attempts that Islam expertly defended, Charles landed some glancing elbows from the bottom, Charles stood up. Islam took Charles down, all Islam until Charles partially landed an up kick before the sound of the horn.

Having some successful moments does not equate to being “extremely close”. Extremely close means it could’ve gone either way. It was a clear Islam round.
 
fortheo said:
You're probably one of those guys that thought islam won 4 rounds against volk too lol. The mat grappling between islam and charles was competitive before charles got dropped like a sack of potatoes. Anyone who has a basic understanding of grappling knows this. Islam was playing a long game with his grappling -- his top pressure would have paid dividends as the fight progressed and he weighed on Charles, but if you look at round one's grappling on it's own, the grappling was competitive.
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What does the Volk fight have to do with this? You’re acting like a sensitive BJJ fanboy lol. Mma isn’t ADCC buddy, Oliveira was not as competitive as you’re implying because his grappling was not serving his game plan, Islam’s grappling was serving his game plan. Islam still wanted to go to the ground in rd 2 and Oliveira wanted no part of that. What does that tell you about who won the grappling in rd 1?
 
Lee_ said:
The idea Islam has better striking or was dominant is a joke.

Charles is a kill or be killed fighter; he was bound to finish or get finished, that's just his style. He goes after his opponent. He got caught when being super aggressive, it happens; it isn't like the many point fighters in the UFC would risk such moves. Will the same thing happen in the next fight? I don't think so. But we will see.

People hate on boring fights, yet still hate on someone who absolutely will not be in a boring fight even when it increases the chances he will be caught with something.

Charles also took that fight WAY too soon after three tough fights ina row against the top of the division. Islam was only fighting cans at the time.
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I don't think islam has better striking than Oliveira but his striking does match up very well. Oliveira has dangerous power, but his reckless habits do lead him to be open to counters like we had seen in the first fight when Oliveira threw a telegraphed knee and islam quickly countered when Oliveira was off balance. Even if Oliveira had a better chin, he would've been dropped by that shot because he was basically on one knee at the time. Islam had further shown his speed in the early rounds in the volk fight where he was able to keep pace with the smaller volk who is even fast for 145. In the Dariush fight Oliveira threw several telegraphed high kicks that Dariush was too slow to avoid but I can see islam countering them the same way volk did against yairs much faster high kicks.
That being said oliveiras power would carry better into the later rounds than Islam's speed which is where he will have an advantage.
 
Vagabound said:
He got up only to get hip tossed back down
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Area809 said:
Let’s recount the fight how it really happened. Islam landed a good straight left, Charles pulled guard, Charles threw up 2 triangle attempts that Islam expertly defended, Charles landed some glancing elbows from the bottom, Charles stood up. Islam took Charles down, all Islam until Charles partially landed an up kick before the sound of the horn.

Having some successful moments does not equate to being “extremely close”. Extremely close means it could’ve gone either way. It was a clear Islam round.
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What did islam do on the ground in Rd 1? Didn't land any substantial gnp compared to oliveiras upwards elbows and upkick and didn't really advance position at all. After the triangles, he got stuck in guard.
In Rd 2 islam couldn't take charles down initially. He had to drop him with a well timed shot before getting the submission
 
Charles will do anything to win the fight and IVlam will do everything not lose the fight. Their styles are just so different.

Who ever has the most success with their game will have their hand raised.
 
As a big charles fan i disagree with the ground game statement. Islam did exactly what i knew he was gonna do which was wrestlefuck charles while also effectively avoiding submissions through advantageous positioning
 
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