Rewatched Hagler/Leonard

[crodor3]

I will preface this by saying Marvelous Marvin was and still is my all time favorite boxer and imo the greatest mw of all time. I grew up not far from Brockton, Mass so naturally Marvin was one of my first introductions into boxing. I was so pissed back then at age 13 that I declared it a complete robbery and vowed never to watch it again. I never liked the "you have to BEAT the champ to win the title" nonsense (and still think it is foolish) but in my 13 year old mind Leonard absolutely did NOT beat Marvin.

After watching last night I am not so sure. I gave I think the first 3 or 4 rounds to Ray. He put on an absolute clinic for much early rounds, and continued this off and on late. Marvin was the aggressor and clearly the harder puncher -and seemed to land to the body over and over (whereas Ray would look flashy and the crowd would often react to anything he did, when Marvin landed well it seemed to be ignored.) Overall I believe the scoring would come down to HOW you saw the fight--ie Ray's quickness and speed as opposed to Marvin coming forward the ENTIRE fight (albeit not cutting off the ring effectively and being out boxed for large stretches) and landing thudding blows to the body for much of the middle to later rounds...

... I ended up scoring the bought a draw with Ray winning 6 rounds and Marvin winning 6, but it was so close I can almost understand the 118-110 scorecard for Ray (but disagree with that score obviously) So how in retrospect do you see this decision? Fair or robbery?

 

[Seano]

115/113 Leonard. Maybe 116/112.
I really didn't think that fight was all that controversial. Hagler gave away too many early rounds and Ray did a great job stealing a lot of close rounds.
We just had a thread on this fight a week or so ago, lots of opinions in that.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

last time i watched it like 5 years ago i had it hagler 7-5 but almost every round can go either way. history would be so much different if they called this a draw.

 

[aries]

Hagler is also my all time favourite fighter. I haven't watched this fight for years as I don't care to remember it. But on a recent watch I had it 116-112 to Leonard so it's not really a close fight in my eyes. Leonard outboxed Hagler and made him look cumbersome imho. I just wish Hagler had started off southpaw.

 

[stuff jones]

Did Hagler ever admit that he foolishly wanted to outbox SRL, like SRL foolishly wanted to outbrawl Duran in their first fight?

 

[randomg1t]

Did Hagler ever admit that he foolishly wanted to outbox SRL, like SRL foolishly wanted to outbrawl Duran in their first fight?

i think hagler always maintained that he won that fight and that he'd fuck him up in the rematch.

which is entirely possible, on both accounts.

 

[Absolut]

Marvin danced. Wtf

 

[Buddy Revell]

I will preface this by saying Marvelous Marvin was and still is my all time favorite boxer and imo the greatest mw of all time. I grew up not far from Brockton, Mass so naturally Marvin was one of my first introductions into boxing. I was so pissed back then at age 13 that I declared it a complete robbery and vowed never to watch it again. I never liked the "you have to BEAT the champ to win the title" nonsense (and still think it is foolish) but in my 13 year old mind Leonard absolutely did NOT beat Marvin.

After watching last night I am not so sure. I gave I think the first 3 or 4 rounds to Ray. He put on an absolute clinic for much early rounds, and continued this off and on late. Marvin was the aggressor and clearly the harder puncher -and seemed to land to the body over and over (whereas Ray would look flashy and the crowd would often react to anything he did, when Marvin landed well it seemed to be ignored.) Overall I believe the scoring would come down to HOW you saw the fight--ie Ray's quickness and speed as opposed to Marvin coming forward the ENTIRE fight (albeit not cutting off the ring effectively and being out boxed for large stretches) and landing thudding blows to the body for much of the middle to later rounds...

... I ended up scoring the bought a draw with Ray winning 6 rounds and Marvin winning 6, but it was so close I can almost understand the 118-110 scorecard for Ray (but disagree with that score obviously) So how in retrospect do you see this decision? Fair or robbery?

Don't feel like going down this rabbit hole again, but i had it similar. Felt that Hagler won the fight 7 rounds to 5 -- or so -- but could understand a draw. don't see how Ray could've won the fight, as he never tried to take the fight from the champ, the guy with the strap. Not a robbery, but not fair.

 

[burningspear]

last time i watched it like 5 years ago i had it hagler 7-5 but almost every round can go either way. history would be so much different if they called this a draw.

Just imagine if GGG had gotten the nod over Canelo.

 

[Hagler]

115-113 either way is fine.

 

[Seano]

Just imagine if GGG had gotten the nod over Canelo.

Lots of people do.

 

[Mr.Maelstrom]

Lots of people do.

Jesus that was savage lol

 

[tank666]

According to SRL autobiography (which I highly recommend) Hagler never wanted a rematch. Ray was up for it though and they tried to make it happen . Also said he tried to be friendly with Hagler afterwards but Hagler didn't want to know. Big fan of both by the way.

 

[tank666]

Oh and I think Ray just did enough to win but a draw would have been understandable.

 

[ScarfaceJr]

Bias aside (not really)
Hagler 7/5

 

[Heath Robinson]

According to SRL autobiography (which I highly recommend) Hagler never wanted a rematch. Ray was up for it though and they tried to make it happen . Also said he tried to be friendly with Hagler afterwards but Hagler didn't want to know. Big fan of both by the way.

That is consistent with what Arum had to say in a recent podcast and he was Hagler camp, not Leonard.

Arum : "Ray said to me, Bob, go over and tell Marvin there's a lot of money to be made in a rematch" and Arum says regardless of how hard people tried to get make the rematch happen, Hagler was not interested.

 

[defjaam]

I just saw their weigh-in for the first time today.



"Quality. No pushing or shoving. No shouting or swearing like the assholes we have today."

I like this comment below the video. It's accurate as well as funny lol

 

[TheGreatA]

That is consistent with what Arum had to say in a recent podcast and he was Hagler camp, not Leonard.

Arum : "Ray said to me, Bob, go over and tell Marvin there's a lot of money to be made in a rematch" and Arum says regardless of how hard people tried to get make the rematch happen, Hagler was not interested.

Hagler probably realized he had lost a step by that point. It felt like he was just pushing himself to go through that Leonard fight, nothing he did was smooth and effortless, he was just working, instead of following a plan and executing it.

Unfortunately it wasn't enough to impress the judges, although the dude with the 118-110 scorecard was always going to give it to Ray as long as they didn't carry him out on a stretcher. I understand Hagler's grudge just because that one judge was obviously in the bag for Ray, not necessarily because he was paid off but because he was more invested in Ray's redemption arc than scoring the fight objectively.

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

Haven't watched it in years but round 7 or 8 is one of the greatest rounds of All time.

 

[burningspear]

I just saw their weigh-in for the first time today.



"Quality. No pushing or shoving. No shouting or swearing like the assholes we have today."

I like this comment below the video. It's accurate as well as funny lol

lol came into my feed too, Hagler was more jovial than the myth.