Retrospective 001: Frank Shamrock vs Tito Ortiz

IMPmmath said:
The night Tito beat Guy Mezger he put on a tshirt
that im pretty sure said "Gay Mezger is my bitch" .That set off Ken who supposedly smashed tables threw shit everywhere and the cops ended up being called.
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I mean, look at this photo. Who would've thought this matchup would have set off fireworks that carried on for years? Lol.

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Also...

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IMPmmath said:
That Frank Shamrock left his belt in the ring that night and i don't think we ever saw him again at the same level.

The buildup to that fight was legendary I recommend those who aren't familiar go back and watch the lions den run in the UFC especially Frank and then Tito's run. Frank was also supposed to fight Vitor when Vitor made his drop from heavyweight and had a couple wins at MW.Its a shame that fight never. happened
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A true fuck up by the UFC letting Frank walk...

Who knows what we would of witnessed had they been able to retain him...

That Vitor vs Frank fight would of been something special...man...id have to go with Frank but who knows on the feet as crazy as it may seem vitor might have even been faster then Frank...and Vitor had a decent submission based BJJ top game
 
Paolo Delutis said:
Part of the point of doing this , is to shine some light on this fact that this has mostly been buried.

Also try and have a read , when you have time thanks
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went back and read it, good post. I appreciate you wanting to put more serious deeper dive content on here and especially for educating new fans on why some the older guys could fit right in today's crop under the right circumstances. Id love to see you do a post similar to this on Takanori Gomi, he's another guy that fought in the UFC too late but could be considered the precursor for guys like Conor McGregor in terms of how far KO power and TDD (Sprawl n Brawl) can take a fighter. The new fans will never admit it but Prime Gomi could've succeeded in today's landscape when you look closer at the career McGregor has had.
 
Paolo Delutis said:
Hello fight fans,

Since the beginning of 2022 I've decided to take more of my posting here on the Sherdog more seriously ,less about the back and forth and more about the actual sport or sport related content.Thats not to say I wont be busting hype trains or exposing fools but I wanted to take some time on the cusp of another fight card this weekend to shine some light of key fight in MMA's history.Along with these threads I will be making another series breaking down major fights of upcoming fight cards from a coaching perspective as i hope to one day coach and would like to see how accurate my breakdowns are against reality and how well my suggestions or coaching directives would work with said fighters,the first one being UFC 272 Colby v.s Masvidal i will be releasing the break down post weigh in March 5th 2022 keep your eyes open.

For the hardcores this fight should be well known but for the newer fans i pick this fight to start off what i hope will be a re-occuring thread series for me because a lot of new fans seem to think all the best fighters exist now only and the old guys couldn't hang with todays fighters. Although there is some merit to this when your talking about the fighter Frank Shamrock this simply doesn't apply the man had it all a solid stand up game,great wrestling both offensively and defensively ,submissions , ground and pound and a fight IQ to rival GSP and Jon Jones and the kicker being he had all this in the NINETIES.This fight was to be a passing of ages or guard with the steam rolling young fierce Tito Ortiz representing the new age of strong ,huge wrestler base fighters but this "older lion" (get it ex lions den) wasn't quite ready to be quiet.

For your viewing pleasure

(Also lmfao at the commentary back then at some points,we've come along way boys. Goldie trying his best out there)

Things to Notice:

This fight was in 1999 look how complete of a fighter Frank Shamrock was , he was clearly the better striker then Tito landing great leg kicks, boxing combos and clinch strikes all while dealing with the takedowns by Tito quite well no wasted energy, kept Tito in guard and even swept him all while never stopping to attack from the bottom.Many new age fighters could learn from Franks approach here on how to fight effectively from the bottom in MMA against larger wrestling based fighters.

Another key thing to notice the size difference , Tito was huge compared to Frank and certainly used it but Frank having the Fight IQ advantage decided not to fight strength with strength a losing battle for sure something Ken Shamrock would try and paid dearly for, instead Frank used technique we clearly see Frank working back to feet in the way we see many modern MMA fighters do today which meant less energy used and in the end made the difference as Tito tired over the rounds.


Conclusion:
There is no doubt MMA has grown and evolved in certain elements of the game since the 1990's , it's however important to take time and remember those fighters from the past who were really timeless in their skill sets Frank Shamrock I think embodies for me what these Retrospective Threads hope to represent as I believe you transport this Frank Shamrock to the modern day MW or LHW division and there is little doubt in my mind he would be top 5 or even champion, not bad for a guy from the 1990's.


Feedback: Please let me know if you liked this kind of posting and any ideas for future series episodes i will tag you in future posts.
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That was a great fight an amazing one! Wow
 
Simply exquisite thread.

Prime Frank was a machine. The first truly well rounded fighter who could strike technically or hit the brawl button, who could wrestle offensively or sprawl and brawl and who had a comprehensive understanding of submissions from top and from bottom. Everyone wants to talk about so called "evolution" but this version of Frank would beat Anthony Smith like he stole something.
 
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Frank had some good ass fights in the UFC. I was surprised to see Tito gas and tap to strikes. He ruled that division for a while though and carried the promotion through some tough times after losing to Frank. I think he was a little better on the mic back then too.
 
Great strategy!

I completely forgot about the "tapout due to strikes".
 
Anyone remember when Frank showed up in Pride wearing a very loud Hawaiian shirt , he proceeded to call out Shoji , Inoue and Sakuraba
Sakuraba was still in the ring when this happened after a victory pro wrestling style , I was so excited, sucks that those 2 never fought
 
[QU
Jewish Lightning said:
Simply exquisite thread.

Prime Frank was a machine. The first trult well rounded fighter who could strike technically or hit the brawl button, who could wrestle offensively or sprawl and brawl and who had a comprehensive understanding of submissions from top and from bottom. Everyone wants to talk about so called "evolution" but this version of Frank would beat Anthony Smith like he stole something.
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Thanks man ill tag ya in the next one
 
Superlative said:
went back and read it, good post. I appreciate you wanting to put more serious deeper dive content on here and especially for educating new fans on why some the older guys could fit right in today's crop under the right circumstances. Id love to see you do a post similar to this on Takanori Gomi, he's another guy that fought in the UFC too late but could be considered the precursor for guys like Conor McGregor in terms of how far KO power and TDD (Sprawl n Brawl) can take a fighter. The new fans will never admit it but Prime Gomi could've succeeded in today's landscape when you look closer at the career McGregor has had.
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Thanks man really appreciate it...and noted there will be a Takanori Gomi retrospective coming
 
stopped reading after TS said he's taking his posts seriously. Piss off.
 
Paolo Delutis said:
A true fuck up by the UFC letting Frank walk...

Who knows what we would of witnessed had they been able to retain him...

That Vitor vs Frank fight would of been something special...man...id have to go with Frank but who knows on the feet as crazy as it may seem vitor might have even been faster then Frank...and Vitor had a decent submission based BJJ top game
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Vitor didn't have any sort of skills at all aside from boxing at that point.
 
Pakman said:
Vitor didn't have any sort of skills at all aside from boxing at that point.
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False...

He was scouted at 17 by Carlson Gracie and then became a Gracie Disciple later getting his black belt under the Gracies

By 1999 which is near this fight he had already beaten Wanderlei a year before...

Vitor always had Boxing and BJJ from a young age...

He was called The Phenom for a reason
 
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