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Movies Reservoir Dogs has a terrible ending
- Thread starter GoodBadHBK
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@Hart Break Kick 97 I bumped this because I recently rewatched the film.
I don't have an issue with the ending. As others have said, in the brief glimpses of the relationship we saw between Joe and Mr. White, it appeared more like Larry and he respected one another and got along on friendly terms. It was not like they were ultra-tight.
Larry spent the movie feeling guilty for Tim Roth being shot. He had bonded with him through the shared turmoil in the botched heist. He also had palpable beef with Eddie and Joe by virtue of their boy Vega being a stone-cold psycho who put them in a far worse position than they might have otherwise been in. I can buy that he was not going to allow Joe to take Orange out.
What I can't really buy, however,- and it's a minor gripe in the vast scheme of things because I think it's a great film top to bottom:
Freddie makes the point that the cops are ready to storm the rendezvous point as soon as Joe Cabot shows his face. That's all well and good if the initial plan was in play, but the minute Vic Vega turned the jewelry store into a wild west show, the parameters changed.
Just as the officers rushed into action in order to try to save civilian lives after Blonde started shooting, and were ready to take out every one of the criminals then and there, there does not seem to me to be any chance that they would hang back and wait for the off chance that Joe would show up after the failed heist.
Larry killed officers and Pink shot some as well. I don't see a possibility of the police holding off in that scenario. Moreover, they presumably have eyes on the place because they are going to be able to see when Joe arrives on the scene. So they not only should have seen Freddie, badly (perhaps mortally) wounded, being carried into the location, but they also should have seen Marvin Nash removed from Blonde's trunk and brought in as a captive.
So under these circumstances- killers holed up in a building, two cops in grave danger with them- they are just going to wait for Joe to show up before descending on the place? When Eddie, Larry, and Pink bail to dispose of the cars, they are just going to let them go when they have no idea whether or not they are ever going to go back?
I don't have an issue with the ending. As others have said, in the brief glimpses of the relationship we saw between Joe and Mr. White, it appeared more like Larry and he respected one another and got along on friendly terms. It was not like they were ultra-tight.
Larry spent the movie feeling guilty for Tim Roth being shot. He had bonded with him through the shared turmoil in the botched heist. He also had palpable beef with Eddie and Joe by virtue of their boy Vega being a stone-cold psycho who put them in a far worse position than they might have otherwise been in. I can buy that he was not going to allow Joe to take Orange out.
What I can't really buy, however,- and it's a minor gripe in the vast scheme of things because I think it's a great film top to bottom:
Freddie makes the point that the cops are ready to storm the rendezvous point as soon as Joe Cabot shows his face. That's all well and good if the initial plan was in play, but the minute Vic Vega turned the jewelry store into a wild west show, the parameters changed.
Just as the officers rushed into action in order to try to save civilian lives after Blonde started shooting, and were ready to take out every one of the criminals then and there, there does not seem to me to be any chance that they would hang back and wait for the off chance that Joe would show up after the failed heist.
Larry killed officers and Pink shot some as well. I don't see a possibility of the police holding off in that scenario. Moreover, they presumably have eyes on the place because they are going to be able to see when Joe arrives on the scene. So they not only should have seen Freddie, badly (perhaps mortally) wounded, being carried into the location, but they also should have seen Marvin Nash removed from Blonde's trunk and brought in as a captive.
So under these circumstances- killers holed up in a building, two cops in grave danger with them- they are just going to wait for Joe to show up before descending on the place? When Eddie, Larry, and Pink bail to dispose of the cars, they are just going to let them go when they have no idea whether or not they are ever going to go back?
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The ending wasn't terrible I just didn't like how he turned on Joe who he's known for years for someone he just met for a few days. He kills Joe for someone he met on the job and he had no proof he was just going by gut.
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It certainly doesn't make a whole lot of sense rationally. But I think QT did a good job of showing that Larry wasn't a rational guy. He was an emotional dude, compassionate and sentimental to a certain extent. You could see how his judgment would be clouded unlike a guy like Pink who was very pragmatic throughout.
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Im against biting the hand that feeds you so it just doesn't compute with me. I mean Tim was dying as it is, it's very unlikely he's gonna survive a gut shot for that long without medical attention.
It's just something that always bothered me whenever I watched RD.
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It does following the events in the movie though. He saw the guy take a bullet essentially in his place, and blow away a civilian. And they also put a complete psycho on the job with him. That seemed to delight in killing innocents, which was against his moral code.
Then when they tell him they're going to kill orange, they say it's based on a hunch. He has every reason to assume orange is legit. He's seen this guy basically take a bullet in his place, and shoot a civilian. Why would he think he's a cop at that point?
You add in the fact that he just had more of a respectful employer/employee relationship with Joe, whereas him and orange were out in the trenches together.
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On another note, one of my favorite moments in that movie- the escalating tension between White and Pink right before Vega shows up.
Pink:
Let me ask you a question? Do they have a sheet on you where you're from?
White:
Yeahh!
Pink:
Well that's it, man. I was worried about mug shot possibilities as it was. Now, he knows a.) your name b.) what you look like c.) where you're from and d.) what your specialty is. They're not going to have to show him a lot of photos for him to pick you out. (sarcastically) That's it right? You didn't give him anything else that could narrow down the search?
White:
If you don't back off, me and you are going to go round and round.
Pink:
We're not taking him to a hospital.
White:
If we don't he'll die.
Pink:
And I'm very sad about that, but some guys are lucky and some ain't.
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Very well said.
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The beginning and middle aren't great either.
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He didn't take a bullet for him though, he just happen to be the one to open the door. I agree where you said he saw Tim kill a civilian so that's persuasive right there. Good argument.
Even still would you really go against the guy who gives you work throughout the years over someone you just met on the job?
Tarantino is doing an all black cast for Broadway or at least he wants to, would be interesting to see who he can get if it does happen.
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As far as debut films go, I think Tarantino showed a lot of talent right off the bat.
I really like the cast too. Buscemi was always the standout for me but really I think all of those main actors deliver- Keitel, Roth, Madsen.
Tierney and Penn are great in it in my opinion. RIP.
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It was just a boss he respected and not his best friend. Seemed like he was a nomad taking jobs all over. And the taking a bullet thing was in a karmic sense. I think he definitely was the kind of guy to consider that line of thinking. It could have been me taking that bullet, instead it was this kid. He was the experienced guy on the op, orange was some new unknown guy. I think his actions show he felt responsible for him. That's why he weeps,at the end when he discovers it WAS all a setup. He was a rare guy that had a moral compass in a rough killers game. And it got him caught up.
Narratively, it's very much there for a reason. It's what turns that final scene into a tragedy.
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The only thing that gets me is when Tim Roth confesses to Keitel that he's an undercover cop. There's NO WAY he would've said that when his boys were bringing help. He holds his mud and he's a MADE MAN when it comes to him being a cop.
He's going to throw it all away because he feels sad for Keitel now?!?
Fudge outta here with that noise, man...
Thanks to @Rhood for the Tim Roth correction.
He's going to throw it all away because he feels sad for Keitel now?!?
Fudge outta here with that noise, man...
Thanks to @Rhood for the Tim Roth correction.
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Eli Roth was 19 years old when Tarantino filmed Dogs.
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Good point. Tell someone who just killed for you that you are the undercover, I'm sure he's not going to kill you now
Django unchained is another one
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Good point. Tell someone who just killed for you that you are the undercover, I'm sure he's not going to kill you now
Django unchained is another one
I'm pretty sure Tarantino framed it like it was a matter of honor- like Roth knew that Larry had just killed for him and had risked being killed for him and he felt the burden of withholding that info. so he had to come clean out of some sense of morality.
For me, I always interpreted it like he knew he was going to die anyway- badly wounded initially and then shot again by Joe- and he felt he might as well reveal to White the truth out of respect to him for trying his best to help him. Of course that is tough to accept in its own right because Larry, in hindsight, would have been far better off never knowing that Freddie was the undercover.
Hell, the fact that Roth survives Joe's shot stretches credulity pretty far in its own right.
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I like Tarantino, but I feel like he sometimes goes for style over substance. Reservoir dogs was okay, but it's not something I'd want to watch more than once.
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There is only so much a undercover cop is allowed to do. White saw Orange take a bullet during a carjacking after still going with White after White killed two cops. After watching Blonde murder clerks. That would be enough to dispel any suspicion from a criminal that Orange was a cop. The others also didn’t suspect him until the very end.
After that White felt a responsibility to Orange. That on top of a bond they had built up. He saw himself as Oranges protector. Who has promised him he would survive. Any suggestion that his care was misplaced angered him, as demonstrated early when Pink shows disdain for Oranges fate and White attacks him.
Also, White was never 100 percent that there was a rat in the first place. He blamed Blonde for the botch. Eddie and Blonde also didn’t suspect a rat thinking it was the clerks. Only Pink was 100 percent on there being a rat but didn’t necessarily suspect Orange more than anybody else.
Ultimately, White thought Eddie and Joe were too deferent to Blonde. He thinks Blonde put all their asses on the line and the Cabots didn’t seem to have a problem with his behavior. His distrust of Blonde made it easier to accept Oranges story that Blonde went into business for himself. He doesn’t have the same receipts of Blondes loyalty that Joe and Eddie do..and their blind eye to Blondes psychotic behavior made him lose respect and trust in them. Probably the downside of having a team caper where nobody knows each other. As far as White is concerned, Blonde is no less a novice than Orange.
White took the revelation that his protection was misplaced with heartbreak and went out killing Orange.
I think if Reservoir Dogs had a post Pulp Fiction QT budget, the White and Orange friendship would’ve been fleshed out more than just a friendly chat in the car, leaving little question to Whites actions.
it’s like if Django was made on the Reservoir Dogs budget, a lot of the character buildup get abandoned and when Schultz shoots Calvin instead of shaking his hand..then that becomes “That part of Django made no sense because all he had to do was shake his hand now he has fucked everybody”…but all the development explains why Schultz ego was so bruised and his disgust for Calvin was so high that he really couldn’t help himself.
This is probably why QT has floated remaking Reservoir Dogs so he can give it the 170 minutes treatment and give the characters more depth, but it’s still a great movie and I have no problem with characters motivation at the end.
After that White felt a responsibility to Orange. That on top of a bond they had built up. He saw himself as Oranges protector. Who has promised him he would survive. Any suggestion that his care was misplaced angered him, as demonstrated early when Pink shows disdain for Oranges fate and White attacks him.
Also, White was never 100 percent that there was a rat in the first place. He blamed Blonde for the botch. Eddie and Blonde also didn’t suspect a rat thinking it was the clerks. Only Pink was 100 percent on there being a rat but didn’t necessarily suspect Orange more than anybody else.
Ultimately, White thought Eddie and Joe were too deferent to Blonde. He thinks Blonde put all their asses on the line and the Cabots didn’t seem to have a problem with his behavior. His distrust of Blonde made it easier to accept Oranges story that Blonde went into business for himself. He doesn’t have the same receipts of Blondes loyalty that Joe and Eddie do..and their blind eye to Blondes psychotic behavior made him lose respect and trust in them. Probably the downside of having a team caper where nobody knows each other. As far as White is concerned, Blonde is no less a novice than Orange.
White took the revelation that his protection was misplaced with heartbreak and went out killing Orange.
I think if Reservoir Dogs had a post Pulp Fiction QT budget, the White and Orange friendship would’ve been fleshed out more than just a friendly chat in the car, leaving little question to Whites actions.
it’s like if Django was made on the Reservoir Dogs budget, a lot of the character buildup get abandoned and when Schultz shoots Calvin instead of shaking his hand..then that becomes “That part of Django made no sense because all he had to do was shake his hand now he has fucked everybody”…but all the development explains why Schultz ego was so bruised and his disgust for Calvin was so high that he really couldn’t help himself.
This is probably why QT has floated remaking Reservoir Dogs so he can give it the 170 minutes treatment and give the characters more depth, but it’s still a great movie and I have no problem with characters motivation at the end.
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Very well said. My only gripe with Django is once Leo & Waltz are dead the movie loses all momentum. It would have been better if Jamie shot his way out with his wife and then it ended.
It's a shame Tarantino doesn't like making a lot of films because he talked about doing a sequel where Django teams up with Zorro which could have been amazing.
