Research Shows "grit" more important than IQ

[AgeofEmpires2**]

Of the many things this completely ignores is the dodos who find success because of family connections.

I hate to segregate this part of your post but you haven't heard the phrase, "It's who you know"?

If people get jobs through other people easier than three certificates of recognition which took a lot of fucking work... then perhaps people should work harder on 'networking' rather than other things that are minimal to being successful, namely raising your GPA from 3.4 to 3.6. This is the world we live in and this is how it's always been. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

 

[James Keith]

You should write novels. You are a very imaginative person. The idea that there's no continuum between mental retardation and genius is a super cool one.

Here's a statistic I would like to see if you (or anyone) can find it:

What is the lowest recorded IQ score for a person accepted into MIT on academic scholarship? I would also be curious to see the median income of MENSA members versus the median income of the general population.

I already pointed out severe retardation was an exception.

Of course there a continuum. Did you mean to imply the existence of this continuum of performance on tests or wherever else you like disproved something about my post?

MIT admission committees or whoever else chooses their scholarship recipients based on their own preferences and agendas, which by the way includes standardized tests scores as a factor. I don't see how that is a better gold standard for anything.

 

[panamaican]

I hate to segregate this part of your post but you haven't heard the phrase, "It's who you know"?

If people get jobs through other people easier than three certificates of recognition which took a lot of fucking work... then perhaps people should work harder on 'networking' rather than other things that are minimal to being successful, namely raising your GPA from 3.4 to 3.6. This is the world we live in and this is how it's always been. Don't hate the playa hate the game.

Exactly.

Everyone knows networking is important but no one wants to credit that it's a lot of hard work too.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Exactly.

Everyone knows networking is important but no one wants to credit that it's a lot of hard work too.

Funny how inherent, gifted "family connections" suddenly transforms into the hard work and challenge of "networking" through the keyboards of right-wingers. Over the course of just two posts, too!

 

[UpaLoompa]

Exactly.

Everyone knows networking is important but no one wants to credit that it's a lot of hard work too.

There's a clear difference between networking and nepotism.

 

[panamaican]

Funny how inherent, gifted "family connections" suddenly transforms into the hard work and challenge of "networking" through the keyboards of right-wingers. Over the course of just two posts, too!

Oh, you think networking only occurs through family. You'd be wrong but you know that already.

 

[panamaican]

There's a clear difference between networking and nepotism.

Not really. I suppose from the outside it seems that way.

Even within families, relationships have to be maintained and strengthened.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Oh, you think networking only occurs through family. You'd be wrong but you know that already.

If I didn't understand the distinction I wouldn't have interjected.

Hola was talking about success via "family connections". AOE2 replied by saying that "networking" was a key to success. You then jumped in to say that a lot of hard work goes into effective networking.

If you want to call Reggie getting a good gig straight out of university at his uncle's firm an example of "networking", that's your creative prerogative. I would call it an example of being the uncle's sister's son.

 

[MusterX]

Interesting to read.

Also, something that most successful people already realize and most unsuccessful people want to deny. Clich

 

[DangDaGawd]

It's hard for a lot of people to accept articles like these because it's makes them face the fact that they are personally responsible for their lack of success in life. It's easier to create some narrative about a cabal of reptilians existing to make sure no one under 30 is successful than to except personal responsibility for your failures.

 

[MusterX]

It's hard for a lot of people to accept articles like these because it's makes them face the fact that they are personally responsible for their lack of success in life. It's easier to create some narrative about a cabal of reptilians existing to make sure no one under 30 is successful than to except personal responsibility for your failures.

Or you could accept the fact that the article doesn't take into account all the variables. There are people that work exceptionally hard and never go anywhere because of the way society is geared. Without a poor class of people we would crumble. Its actually necessary under the current paradigm. Who is going to be the janitor? The trash hauler? The lawn mower, etc. etc. ad infinitum.

When some of those people "rise up" we replace them with more. Someone must flip the burgers at Mcdonald's and the be the janitor at the elementary school. I know this is difficult for some people to accept but our society would not function without low wage hard working poor people. All the hard work in the world will not lift them from it.

 

[DangDaGawd]

Or you could accept the fact that the article doesn't take into account all the variables. There are people that work exceptionally hard and never go anywhere because of the way society is geared. Without a poor class of people we would crumble. Its actually necessary under the current paradigm. Who is going to be the janitor? The trash hauler? The lawn mower, etc. etc. ad infinitum.

When some of those people "rise up" we replace them with more. Someone must flip the burgers at Mcdonald's and the be the janitor at the elementary school. I know this is difficult for some people to accept but our society would not function without low wage hard working poor people. All the hard work in the world will not lift them from it.

I'm not sure what this point this post is supposed to make in regard to mine. All I'm stating is that most people's natural reaction to any study that stresses the importance of hard work in success is to reject it because it makes them face the fact that they responsible for their own situation to a degree.

If someone works hard as a janitor, raises a family, and lives within their means - they are successful imo. Maybe to a lot of others they aren't, but success isn't just a function of your income imo.

Also, I don't think this article's purposes is to state that hard work or "grit" is the only determining variable nor do I think anyone could reasonably completely discount intelligence as an important variable. I just think we're seeing a generation of Americans come into the work force who aren't willing to put in the work that the previous generation did, yet still expect the same results.

 

[MusterX]

I'm not sure what this point this post is supposed to make in regard to mine. All I'm stating is that most people's natural reaction to any study that stresses the importance of hard work in success is to reject it because it makes them face the fact that they responsible for their own situation to a degree.

If someone works hard as a janitor, raises a family, and lives within their means - they are successful imo. Maybe to a lot of others they aren't, but success isn't just a function of your income imo.

Also, I don't think this article's purposes is to state that hard work or "grit" is the only determining variable nor do I think anyone could reasonably completely discount intelligence as an important variable. I just think we're seeing a generation of Americans come into the work force who aren't willing to put in the work that the previous generation did, yet still expect the same results.

This post I like, reptilians post, not so much.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Or you could accept the fact that the article doesn't take into account all the variables. There are people that work exceptionally hard and never go anywhere because of the way society is geared. Without a poor class of people we would crumble. Its actually necessary under the current paradigm. Who is going to be the janitor? The trash hauler? The lawn mower, etc. etc. ad infinitum.

When some of those people "rise up" we replace them with more. Someone must flip the burgers at Mcdonald's and the be the janitor at the elementary school. I know this is difficult for some people to accept but our society would not function without low wage hard working poor people. All the hard work in the world will not lift them from it.

You live in a crazy reality...

The reality I have heard about says there are more than enough high-paying careers available for everyone who has acquired the necessary credentials. And all the low paying jobs society requires can be filled by the young people and students who are in process of acquiring the skills that will vault them into the prosperous fields.

The American economic system is a beautiful process of dues-paying, then reward. Dues-paying, then reward. The system has never failed anyone. (Though the system has seen a lot of people who have failed it. But that's not the system's fault.)

 

[Satsui Ryu]

I'm not sure what this point this post is supposed to make in regard to mine. All I'm stating is that most people's natural reaction to any study that stresses the importance of hard work in success is to reject it because it makes them face the fact that they responsible for their own situation to a degree.

If someone works hard as a janitor, raises a family, and lives within their means - they are successful imo. Maybe to a lot of others they aren't, but success isn't just a function of your income imo.

Also, I don't think this article's purposes is to state that hard work or "grit" is the only determining variable nor do I think anyone could reasonably completely discount intelligence as an important variable. I just think we're seeing a generation of Americans come into the work force who aren't willing to put in the work that the previous generation did, yet still expect the same results.

At least in my line of work I find this to be the complete opposite. With the terrible economy and wages staying stagnant the work world has become completely cutthroat. I think these days its actually a lot more difficult to get ahead and people are working more for less than say the baby boomers. Its amazing these days the amount of jobs that for god knows what reason require a college degree and you'd be very hard pressed to find a family that can sustain itself on one income.

Exactly.

Everyone knows networking is important but no one wants to credit that it's a lot of hard work too.

One thing that could be said about networking is that a lot of the skills of people who are good at networking carry over very well to leadership roles and employers prize that. The benefits of networking are great, but the skills of a great "networker" are worth their weight in gold.

 

[ultramanhyata]

At least in my line of work I find this to be the complete opposite. With the terrible economy and wages staying stagnant the work world has become completely cutthroat. I think these days its actually a lot more difficult to get ahead and people are working more for less than say the baby boomers. Its amazing these days the amount of jobs that for god knows what reason require a college degree and you'd be very hard pressed to find a family that can sustain itself on one income.

This flies in the face of the Koch-brothers-funded, socio-political PR kool-aid. So I reject your conclusions out of hand.

Young people today are lazy and entitled, don't know what hard work really is, and are not willing to make the kinds of personal and economic sacrifices that their forebears did. They're the most affluent generation in American history (did yer grandpa have a smart phone - or a Netflix account - ya little piss??!!) and all they can do is whine, whine, whine about how difficult it is to find a job that pays a decent wage in order to make ends meet.

We need to reestablish in our young people the kind of resilient character that existed in the Americans of the 1950's... An era when a kid could quit high-school, go to work in the local factory, and be able to afford a home in the suburbs, five kids, a stay at home wife, retire in his 60's, move to Florida, and spend the rest of his days on the beach. And be happy and thankful about it. No bitching. No blaming anyone else for his lot.

We've got it damned good by comparison in 2014. Damned good.

 

[RYOTOOOOOO]

Bootstraps

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

+1 on bootstraps

 

[panamaican]

If I didn't understand the distinction I wouldn't have interjected.

Hola was talking about success via "family connections". AOE2 replied by saying that "networking" was a key to success. You then jumped in to say that a lot of hard work goes into effective networking.

If you want to call Reggie getting a good gig straight out of university at his uncle's firm an example of "networking", that's your creative prerogative. I would call it an example of being the uncle's sister's son.

And if the uncle and sister didn't preserve their relationship over the years or if the nephew didn't foster a strong relationship with the uncle, it wouldn't have mattered very much.

Or if the nephew chose a profession where his uncle couldn't help him. Even when people are "gifted" jobs by family, there's more to it than just being born to the right set of loins.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Even when people are "gifted" jobs by family, there's more to it than just being born to the right set of loins.

Exactly. When you win the vaginal lottery, think of all the pain that persons mother went through to bear them.

People dont realize that someone had to suffer. Its not as easy as those Commies make it out to be.