So let me get this straight...
You think Stephan Bonnar would be a legitimate title challenger for Jon Jones or whoever the 205lbs champion ends up being?
After all he lost to the No.1 P4P and he at least regularly competes at 205lbs.
Should we be calling up Leites and Lutter to be on the 205lbs title shot shortlist? Leites at least managed to survive the full five rounds...
You know, you aren't allowed to just make shit up right? He KO'ed Terry Martin and Matt Lindland at 185, and Lindland was ranked top 10 universally. Hell, people were saying Anderson/Franklin were ducking Lindland for the longest time.
1) I should have specified in the UFC.
2) Lindland was universally ranked in the top 10? Not according to
Sherdog...
3) Franklin ducking Lindland... possibly yes when Lindland was cut from the UFC back in 2005, officially because of his choice of t-shirt sponsor and unofficially because they didn't want to risk him beating Franklin. But Anderson? Lindland had the opportunity to make the bout in cage Rage in late 2005 and
he turned it down.
That's why I mentioned Eilers, who's title shot was clearly less deserved.
And you think Buentello's was more deserved than Thomson's?
Different era. Rope breaks? Are you fucking shitting me. That shit shouldn't even count as MMA.
If you're going to take the approach that Pancrase (or early Shooto) doesn't count as MMA then there are a whole load more undeserving challengers to throw in...
A loss in a title fight in which he was robbed? Do you actually watch this shit?
"Robbed"? Rutten vs Randleman was a close bout where the edge went to what you prefer, Randleman's ability to stay on top of Rutten and do nothing or Rutten's ability to hurt Randleman so much he pissed blood.
1: Brock should have been 3-0, and got robbed by mazagatti against mir.
I do find it somewhat interesting that you think a referee actually enforcing the rules is somehow him "robbing" one of the fighters. In an ode to his previous profession, Brock screwed Brock... it's not that hard
not to punch an opponent in the back of the head.
2: Crocop was supposed to be the big thing. Kongo beat him and stole his hype. Herring beat kongo and stole that hype. Lesnar beat herring and stole that hype. Ironically, lesnar was never supposed to even fight herring. He was supposed to fight coleman.
I'm not sure why it's ironic that Lesnar faced Herring instead of Coleman... the Coleman bout would simply have been even more farcical.
Anyway, your little "hype stealing" is fine and all, although it rather misses the fact that Cro Cop's hype had
all been stolen when Gabriel Gonzaga knocked him unconscious in his previous bout. Which rendered Kongo's low-blow fueled clinchfest rather underwhelming.
3:blame randy couture for holding out and forcing the UFC to tie up mir and nogueira for the interim title.
But the question wasn't about who's fault it was, the question was who got the least deserved title shot. Unless you're going to go all the way back to the start and not mention whether Thomson's title shot is deserved or not because it's Grant's fault for getting hurt....
Dumb as shit, but they understandably wanted their champ to avenge his loss.
So we're now up to what... at least three guys who got title shots you accept were less deserving than Thomson. Yet he's still "probably" the least deserving?
The man put asses in seats, and the frye fight was close enough anyways.
Popular or not, it was a farce as a matchup. Everyone who followed MMA knew it was a farce as a matchup. A very smart marketing exercise but a farcical title shot.
In what universe would beating vitor and forrest not warrant a title shot?
When Vitor was coming off a loss and his only notable win at 200/205lbs for seven years was a fluke win over Randy. Or is beating Marvin Eastman the benchmark fighters should strive towards?
And yes, a win over the mighty Forrest Griffen with his brilliant victories over Bill Mahood and the 2005 version of Sinosec. How could anyone question the quality of that victory?
3-0 with three first round stoppages. What's the problem?
1) Three first round stoppages over the 2005 versions of Lodune Sincaid, Shonie Carter and Pete Sell. That's not exactly inspiring.
2) Seeing as you're so happy to question refereeing decisions, then you should also note that the Sell stoppage was ridiculously quick.
Leites' title shot was 100% earned. He just looked like shit in the fight.
Beating Drew McFedries is enough to get you a title shot?
Leites' entire run consisted of beating four awful fighters (Sell, Sword, Jensen and McFedries) and one fairly good one... although again, seeing as you're so happy to question a referee's decisions, I could point out the multiple point deductions Marquardt received and how rarely such point deductions are normally taken away.
Sonnen-esque. Patino had put a huge streak together, and his stock wasn't hurt much for losing to one of the best in the world at the time in a higher weight class.
The Pele losses were at 176lbs. His title shot was at 170lbs... that's not exactly a much bigger weight class.
And of course, let's remember he lost twice to Pele. And if Patino's stock wasn't hurt much for clearly losing to Pele twice (and a rookie Pele at that) then why is Thomson's stock hurt by losing narrowly to Melendez?
Different era. There were no challengers at the time.
We're not talking the mid... or even late... 90's here. Alessio's title shot came in 2000. Miletich managed to find at least somewhat respectable challengers for his other title defences (outside of Patino).
In a higher weight class.
So if any fighter loses in a higher weight class then they deserve a title shot more than a man who knocked out Nate Diaz?
Right?
Getting made to look like a fool by someone who actually fought smartly rather than stand still and brawl?
Sounds like somebody needs an MMA history lesson.
The UFC announces two fights: UFC 103: Swick vs Kampmann, and UFC 105: Dong hyun kim vs dan hardy. Swick vs kampmann was supposed to be a #1 contender fight. Swick gets injured, and they shuffle it, putting Swick against Hardy at UFC 105, with Daley taking on Kampmann at 103. Daley KO's kampmann, and hardy dominates Swick. Pretty clear that hardy deserves the title shot more being 4-0 in the UFC with four upsets, and beating a guy in Swick who was 4-0 at WW and 9-1 in the UFC.
You can't judge this shit with hindsight. Hardy earned his title shot.
I'm not judging it with hindsight. Hardy never deserved the shot and never looked like he had a chance before the bout. He'd struggled past Gono, taken on a selection of middling opposition and got somewhat lucky with the injury status of others (which funnily you seem to avoid mentioning when it comes to Thomson). I've always been a fan of Hardy... hell, I stuck up a thread
congratulating him when he beat Daizo Ishige... but he was never more than a gatekeeper at best.
At the end of the day, you can't compare shit that happened 10 years ago with today because there just weren't viable challengers then.
2003 featured Tim Sylvia, Gan McGee, Sean Sherk, Frank Trigg and Randy Couture challenging for titles. That's a pretty respectable list.
Josh Thomson is a dumb challenger because Dos Anjos and Nurmagomedov have clearly done more to deserve the title shot inside the UFC. That is not debatable.
I like the quick insertion of "inside the UFC" into there. What had Vitor done inside the UFC at 185lbs to deserve a title shot?
It's also a nice way to skate around certain issues. Why do people think Nurmagomedov deserves a title shot? Because he beat Pat Healy... a guy Thomson finished three years ago (albeit outside the UFC).
And even if Thomson does deserve the shot less than Dos Anjos or Nurmagomedov (and I think you overate lots of wins over mediocre competition as opposed to more mixed wins/losses to better competition in that regard), does any of that make him "probably" the least deserving challenger? No. In a world where a 2-1 Brock Lesnar, a Chael Sonnen coming off a loss in the division below, Lober, Shamrock and Quarry have all had title shots he's not the least deserving title challenger ever, "probably" or not.
