CoachB40 said:The Army does believe in training to failure and they are absolutely wrong.
the US government is never wrong :wink:
CoachB40 said:The Army does believe in training to failure and they are absolutely wrong.
CoachB40 said:Delta didn't say that he agreed with them, but he is correct. The Army does believe in training to failure and they are absolutely wrong. Unfortunately there are people leading P.T. that have no clue what they are doing, they just do what their NCO's had passed onto them. In fact the master fitness trainer that I have had the pleasure of knowing(lmao) was a complete moron when it came to the gym. He always tries to come across like he knows, but he doesn't.
We get it delta... the army is great, all knowing and all powerful. Anything they do must be right. They know everything about training, nutrition, recovery, fucking, education, and philosophy. If we would all train like soldiers enlisted in the army despite our goals, we'd be better off. Forget that they are not interested in peak strength, speed, or explosiveness, these things are clearly not important in any sport. train like a soldier today, succeed in everything tomorrow: you'll be smarter, stronger, faster, more powerful, your dick will get harder, you'll get more women, you'll get a promotion, your dog will love you, guys will want to be you, laser beams will shoot from your eyes and strike down those that would oppose you, a sixth sense will develop and exopse those who will betray you, back at your fortress you will head an empire of people who worship you and all will sing praises of your holy name.DeltaSigChi4 said:The United States ARMY disagrees with Urban, you and whoever that Carnal guy is as well. Really.
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Urban said:laser beams will shoot from your eyes and strike down those that would oppose you, a sixth sense will develop and exopse those who will betray you, back at your fortress you will head an empire of people who worship you and all will sing praises of your holy name.
Urban said:We get it delta... the army is great, all knowing and all powerful. Anything they do must be right. They know everything about training, nutrition, recovery, fucking, education, and philosophy. If we would all train like soldiers enlisted in the army despite our goals, we'd be better off. Forget that they are not interested in peak strength, speed, or explosiveness, these things are clearly not important in any sport. train like a soldier today, succeed in everything tomorrow: you'll be smarter, stronger, faster, more powerful, your dick will get harder, you'll get more women, you'll get a promotion, your dog will love you, guys will want to be you, laser beams will shoot from your eyes and strike down those that would oppose you, a sixth sense will develop and exopse those who will betray you, back at your fortress you will head an empire of people who worship you and all will sing praises of your holy name.
Eclypse said:Couple of things to say here...or a lot, if this goes as usual...
One, there are a few ways to consider muscle failure. Let's start with its companion term, muscle exhaustion. Muscle exhaustion is when you can still do 2 or so reps with good form. Muscle failure is...well, somewhere beyond that. Some types, at least, if not all.
I would consider muscle failure, on one level, to be the point where you have to get a spotter to help before you kill yourself by crushing your windpipe with your barbell. Let's call this "concentric failure." However, in doing a modified version of negative training I developed, your muscle can still continue. The muscle may not have anything left on the concentric movement, but you can still progress on the eccentric movement (click here if "concentric" or "eccentric" doesn't make sense to you). Your spotter helps you just enough to get the weight to your full ROM, then you struggle to control it, and keep it from killing you, on the way back. You repeat this process a few times. Usually, I could squeeze another 4 reps or so out of my clients before they became so weak that I didn't trust my own strength to be able to save them, conservatively. I suppose if I had another guy to help we could push my client further. Anyway, let's call this "eccentric failure."
However, there's also a little something referred to as "momentary muscle failure," which if I understand it correctly, is what happens when you're forced to pause for a half-second or so before you can finish out the repetition. Since you can usually get a few more repetitions out before concentric exhaustion, this seems similar to "muscle exhaustion," depending on your definition of form. Is form just your body alignment and movement pattern, or does it require fluid movement, also?
So, what's failure in terms of CNS problems? Momentary muscle failure, concentric failure, or eccentric failure? Further, how or why, exactly, does your CNS decide that it's being modified for failure? Didn't all the previous clean repetitions condition your CNS on the exercise, too?
Regardless, I followed some advice and stopped at the point of momentary muscle failure during my training yesterday. I was nowhere near as drained at the end of every set and could switch to other exercises much faster. The workout that normally takes me 60 minutes to finish only took me about 45 minutes to do. So, with the idea of bodybuilding in mind, in which you attempt to do the maximum volume possible, this was excellent. Usually, this is limited by the amount of time you have, and the overtraining boundary, which is 45-60 minutes of weightlifting.
Bodybuilding, though, concentrates more on hypertrophy, the increase of muscle size, and not necessarily a maximal lift or maximal strength, which uses both strength and endurance fibers in concert. A rep range of 8-12 espouses hypertrophy, as it targets the strength fibers nigh-exclusively, which react to training by size increase. Since endurance fibers don't really see much size increase, they are not focused on. Repetition ranges topping out at fewer than 8 recruit both strength and endurance fibers, and as such are much more exhausting, require longer recovery time, and allow for a lesser maximum volume per workout. So, bodybuilding is best suited for large muscle, which will be strong, though not as strong as if you'd been working the endurance fibers as well.
That's awesome. I'm very impressed. Thanks for the info; now I just have to paraphrase and memorize it to spill it to my clients. Where did you learn that?madmick said:Anyways, concerning your question on "friction," it is this friction that is the reason the greatest intramuscular tension is achieved in the eccentric portion of a lift. Because the muscles are lengthening, there is a greater surface area shared along the cross-sectional; thus the greater friction, and the greater capacity for tension.
This is one of those things that was never clearly explained anywhere I looked. I see things the opposite way in my perspective; I can't see why traditional bodybuilding methods would be more effective than failure, as I learned that you have to "overload the muscle" to make it come back stronger. Now I suppose it depends on what the definition of overload is in that statement.madmick said:Actually, Bompa recommends against going to failure at all during hypertrophy for athletes. I just don't see how this would be nearly as effective as more traditional bodybuilding methods.
Eclypse said:I can't see why traditional bodybuilding methods would be more effective than failure.