Reasons why Jon popped (from a PED user)

[HomerThompson]

apparently the testing for turinabol changed very recently to one that checks for a metabolite rather than the substance itself.

apparently nobody told Jones

Source?

 

[dr.Mitch]

Didn't say it was. I said none of us have any actual evidence to support that claim, which is a fact. That platitude 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' is not a substitute for evidence. If somebody is going to claim that there isn't a single top athlete on the planet that isn't using, they need evidence -- not just anecdotes and conjecture.

Well, first of. I don't claim it. It's my opinion. And certaily I don't mean every single one. PEDs are not just steroids. Ibuprofen can be a bannes substance. Caffeine. Frankly I dont care.

Let me correct myself: I believe close to 95% of top athletes in the world are, or were in some point of their careers on PEDs that are banned.

 

[Hardkore]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. You really should learn that logic. It's an entirely plausible hypothesis that virtually all major athletes are cheating in some way or another.

However, the OP did make one logical mistake. I'm a scientist, and when you write scientific papers you want to avoid absolute statements. For example, you don't say "every single major athlete is cheating"; instead, you say "virtually all ..." or "the vast majority of major athletes are likely cheating in some form or another". This way you're leaving room in your language for that minority percentage. It is true that a small percentage of top tier athletes are likely clean... but I would argue this number would be less than 1%.

So I mostly agree with the OP -- I'd say over 99% of top tier pro athletes are cheating in some way or another.

He's a broscientist, not a real scientist so you have to give him some slack. The OP is based on anecdotal experience and isn't going to some peer reviewed journal, but you are also correct of course.

 

[Coolidge]

You're mistaking evidence for proof. The fact they're top fighters in a sport riddled with PED users is evidence. Proof is when guys actually get popped and, as we've seen, even that isn't always concrete. Dick pills and contaminated supplements and foot creams, etc, etc.

Proof and evidence are synonymous.

Edit: Accidentally deleted the rest of what I typed...

 

[Hardkore]

Source?

Look for it on google, there have been multiple posts about it.

 

[Law of One]

My roommate has been close friends with a now retired UFC fighter, and I asked his opinions about PEDS.

His response was its close to 100% of fighters using. But he said its not all just the typical get bigger stronger faster, most are taking things for injury recovery and in some cases weight cutting.

Fighting clean is basically a disservice now.

 

[egk]

Apparently not. We have people in this thread arguing a literal interpretation of everybody's on steroids, which is stupefying even by Sherdog standards.

LOL I did include "most people" in my post but yeah, I get your point too. Some people do take things very literally.
My view is the top fighters are or have been on something in the past. Belief isn't the same as proof either. I think USADA has only caught a fraction of users and that's why it will continue for the foreseeable future. Athletes take the risk of getting caught for greater rewards.

 

[Coolidge]

Well, first of. I don't claim it. It's my opinion. And certaily I don't mean every single one. PEDs are not just steroids. Ibuprofen can be a bannes substance. Caffeine. Frankly I dont care.

Let me correct myself: I believe close to 95% of top athletes in the world are, or were in some point of their careers on PEDs that are banned.

That's not consistent with what you said initially.

"That being said - there is not one top athlete in the world that is clean. Everybody is looking for an edge."

^If that's not what you actually think, then fine.

'I believe close to 95%...' I'm not going to comment on that, but it's certainly more likely than saying none whatsoever.

 

[yeguiza]

another confirmation that they are all on PEDs

thanks, TS

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

Someone in this thread has ass burgers.

 

[Leinster Rugby]

Source?

https://lightatheendofthetunnelisdi...bol-trace-metabolites-and-the-frank-mir-case/

there are other sources cited in other threads from the past few days

 

[SENDOSMASHER]

Damn.... Why the hell would someone take a drug that stays in your system for 250 days on fight night when they knew they would be drug tested by USADA???

You underestimate the stupidity of Jon

 

[DarkneT]

"That being said - there is not one top athlete in the world that is clean. Everybody is looking for an edge."

Don't throw away your credibility with ridiculous hyperbole like this. Common sense would tell you that out of the thousands of top athletes in the world at least some of them are competing clean.

Athletes yeah
Top ones? Sorry dude Santa Claus isn't real

 

[Melas Chasma]

Not every, but I would say more than half in every top sport in the world.

Thats completely different than claim everybody is using, like TS said. Saying everyone is using is retarded.

 

[The Big Bang]

OK guys, I'm a former bodybuilder and now a powerlifter. Been on peds for 3 years now, and studied them a lot.

Argument "Jon Jones must have took turinabol after the weigh ins cause he passed all the test before that" is not valid.

1) They don't test for everything every time.
2) There are masking agents that help prevent detection
3) Some things you won't detect in urine but will in blood
4) Many athletes who failed a drug test said they were on 5 different things that didn't pop up on the test (Ben Johnson)
5) Mirko admited use of small amounts of HGH and then passed the test.

Turinabol metabolites stay captured in your fat cells for up to 250 days. You start a weight cut and something you took like 7 months ago and you think you don't need to mask anymore cause it's out of your system - well surprise!

I've seen people who i know use pass the tests no problem not even trying to hide it.

Why would he use Turinabol? Well i guess he had an efficient way of hiding it, so it was a good choice. Miscalculated a few things and there you go. Probably if the fight was at HW and he didn't have to cut weight he would pass the test.

As Sonnen said - if you're in this world the moment the guy takes his shirt off - you know whats up.

That being said - there is not one top athlete in the world that is clean. Everybody is looking for an edge.

Artists take drugs for inspiration. Orchestra musicians beta blockers. Archers, swimmers, table tenis...

There are designer drugs that cannot be detected. They are moleculaly alterd versions of the cheap stuff I get and that's why I pay my stuff 100$ a month, and Marion Jones paid her stuff 20 000$. And She never failed a test. Lance Armstrong never failed a test.

Jon was reckless. That is all.

- This is my opinion from expirience and knowing certain things and people. Maybe I'm wrong, but there is a big chance I'm completely right.

EDIT: - https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/probably-the-best-ped-insights-you-will-ever-see-in-this-interview.412846/

"That being said - there is not one top athlete in the world that is clean. Everybody is looking for an edge."

That's simply untrue.

I know people (men and women) who play pro sports that aren't into PEDs.

But hey, you're a bodybuilder...NOT an athlete, so what would you know?

...not much at all.

Not EVERY pro athlete is a cheater.

Period.

 

[Coolidge]

Athletes yeah
Top ones? Sorry dude Santa Claus isn't real

Yes, top ones. There are hundreds of sports (really, thousands, but only so many of them count) and thousands of athletes between them. Only a fool would think that it's impossible for a clean athlete to compete in the upper echelon.

 

[egk]

Proof and evidence are synonymous.

.

That's not true. People use them similarly but there is a difference. If they were synonymous there would be no such thing as reasonable doubt. Any evidence would suffice to prove a case. There was lots of evidence that OJ Simpson murdered two people but they didn't prove it in court to those on the jury. In the context of PED usage, I think that difference is pretty big given the various excuses people are using.

http://pediaa.com/difference-between-evidence-and-proof/
Evidence and proof are two words that we commonly use interchangeably in general parlance. However, there is a subtle difference between evidence and proof. Evidence refers to information or facts that help us to establish the truth or existence of something. Proof is the sum of evidence which helps to prove something. The main difference between evidence and proof is that proof is more concrete and conclusive than evidence. However, it is important to note that these two words can be used interchangeably in common usage despite this difference.

 

[Morning finger]

Reported for PED use

 

[Coolidge]

That's not true. People use them similarly but there is a difference. If they were synonymous there would be no such thing as reasonable doubt. Any evidence would suffice to prove a case. There was lots of evidence that OJ Simpson murdered two people but they didn't prove it in court to those on the jury. In the context of PED usage, I think that difference is pretty big given the various excuses people are using.

http://pediaa.com/difference-between-evidence-and-proof/
Evidence and proof are two words that we commonly use interchangeably in general parlance. However, there is a subtle difference between evidence and proof. Evidence refers to information or facts that help us to establish the truth or existence of something. Proof is the sum of evidence which helps to prove something. The main difference between evidence and proof is that proof is more concrete and conclusive than evidence. However, it is important to note that these two words can be used interchangeably in common usage despite this difference.

You said 'not true' to a direct quote from Merriam-Webster.

"Synonymsattestation, confirmation, corroboration, documentation, proof, substantiation, testament, testimonial, testimony, validation, voucher, witness" - Merriam-Webster

My claim: Proof and evidence are synonymous.

Yes, it's true. They're not lying.

 

[defcon5]

OK guys, I'm a former bodybuilder and now a powerlifter. Been on peds for 3 years now, and studied them a lot.

Argument "Jon Jones must have took turinabol after the weigh ins cause he passed all the test before that" is not valid.

1) They don't test for everything every time.
2) There are masking agents that help prevent detection
3) Some things you won't detect in urine but will in blood
4) Many athletes who failed a drug test said they were on 5 different things that didn't pop up on the test (Ben Johnson)
5) Mirko admited use of small amounts of HGH and then passed the test.

Turinabol metabolites stay captured in your fat cells for up to 250 days. You start a weight cut and something you took like 7 months ago and you think you don't need to mask anymore cause it's out of your system - well surprise!

I've seen people who i know use pass the tests no problem not even trying to hide it.

Why would he use Turinabol? Well i guess he had an efficient way of hiding it, so it was a good choice. Miscalculated a few things and there you go. Probably if the fight was at HW and he didn't have to cut weight he would pass the test.

As Sonnen said - if you're in this world the moment the guy takes his shirt off - you know whats up.

That being said - there is not one top athlete in the world that is clean. Everybody is looking for an edge.

Artists take drugs for inspiration. Orchestra musicians beta blockers. Archers, swimmers, table tenis...

There are designer drugs that cannot be detected. They are moleculaly alterd versions of the cheap stuff I get and that's why I pay my stuff 100$ a month, and Marion Jones paid her stuff 20 000$. And She never failed a test. Lance Armstrong never failed a test.

Jon was reckless. That is all.

- This is my opinion from expirience and knowing certain things and people. Maybe I'm wrong, but there is a big chance I'm completely right.

EDIT: - https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/probably-the-best-ped-insights-you-will-ever-see-in-this-interview.412846/

thanks man interesting read. people like yourself are why i'm campaigning for a usada sub forum.