PCP, I am happy to see your first post on sherdog is on a discussion about RFD (and not a "fedor vs brock" thread!). As long as you provide proper arguments to support your positions you are welcome to defend anything you want (including speed word), we all stand to benefit from being exposed to well-constructed arguments.
I respectfully disagree. In a maximal attempt there is a very short window of time for the lifter to complete the movement. You simply cannot exert maximal force over an extended period of time. In the bench press, if your sticking point is 2 inches off your chest, if you have poor RFD, your "window" to develop enough force to break that sticking point is going to be far from "unlimited".
The only situation where your assertion of "unlimited" time to develop maximal force holds true is in isometrics. Powerlifting movements are not isometric, which is why strict isometrics are usually discredited as a valid form of training for powerlifting movements.
It is true that powerlifting moves are not isometric and thus maximum possible force is not applied. They are very close to it though and thus are
very closely related to maximum strength. I can see an argument that since there is actual movement taking place, there must be some amount of contribution the RFD must have, but considering the speed of those movements the RFD contribution is really minimal.
I will try to address the sticking point argument further down.
The guy who is taking 5 seconds to move the bar is a lot more likely to miss the weight and dump it on his face than the guy taking two seconds to move the bar.
The difference between 2 seconds or 5 five seconds can't really be shown to be related to RFD. If the difference were 2 seconds to 2.5 second one could make a case about it.
How can you say this with any authority when each lifter is performing DE work with different loads, band tensions, chain weight, and movements? One lifter may be seeing results at 40%, while another lifter prefers loads around 70%. You have bands adding 100-200+ lbs of tension at the top. Some may be doing their speed work off their floor, on an incline, or even using dumbbells. It all depends on the lifter and his specific goals.
Look at guys like Nick Winters -- he benches nearly 700 raw, 900DL and incorporates speed work with bands into his training WSBB style. Many lifters outside of Westside Barbell use DE work. While it is very possible to focus on other areas and get strong without bands, chains, DE work, or the more modern advances in training, these methods have been proven time and time again to be effective for these that do incorporate them.
Again, it is my opinion that, while RFD can play a very minor role, it's contribution to a big raw lift is indeed minor. On the other hand I do not disagree with the notion that many big lifters have been successful implementing speed work in their programs. I believe, while improving RFD might have some small contribution, the main reason why this is successful for many lifters (while for others it is not as successful), is really because it is a strategy to work around accommodation in order to avoid stalling, break through plateaus and keep the gains coming.
Working on a particular movement can produce so much improvement before the neuromuscular system stops responding and adapting due to the stress caused by that movement. Changing the motor pattern in any way can help restart neuromuscular adaptations (board pressing, changing width of stance/grip, focusing on different exercises like good mornings, and a great number of other changes on motor patterns). Working on different percentages of max, working with accommodating resistance and working with different speeds will all help avoid stalling due to accommodation.
So my point is not that speed work is useless, my point is that improving RFD has very little contribution in powerlifting movements. If in the future there is a study which compares lifters with the same max strength but different RFD, then I would be surprised if the results show the lifter with the greater RFD lifting significantly more.
A pin press is perfect for demonstrating the importance of speed in powerlifting. If you do a low pin press, with the bar set at the bottom at chest height, you may find it difficult to press 75-100lbs less than your max. Not only that, you will find that the weight moves slowly through the entire range of motion. The big difference here is speed -- when you have the eccentric movement you benefit from a stretch reflex which produces the speed to press the weight off of the chest. Before Wendler quit powerlifting, he wrote an article that uses this same example of why speed is important.
I have seen some people on this forum recommend "pausing" the weight at the chest to be "more explosive". This is incorrect thinking. Pausing or deloading the weight makes you less explosive by eliminating the stretch reflex and the elastic energy developed by the eccentric movement and transforming the movement into more of an isometric. The end result is the bar moves slower and less weight can be used.
SSC stores kinetic energy (which comes from gravity really) into elastic energy and then re-releases it in the form of kinetic energy on the concentric part of the lift, thus assisting in the lift. There is also evidence that the SSC helps slightly increase MU activation, thus slightly increasing force applied to the object of resistance.
In your bench press example, the SSC will store elastic energy which is released at the beginning of the push phase, thus helping the bar lift off the chest. This is why the sticky point is a couple of inches above the chest, there is no longer the aid of the SSC and in a sense you now have to "muscle" the entire weight yourself. That also means you don't exert maximum possible force before you reach your sticking point. Pausing the weight at the chest will obviously result in lifting less weight (due to the elimination of the SSC contribution), but will result in you making maximum exertion at the bottom of the ROM (which is also the weakest point in the strength/length curve). Working on your bottom strength will indeed help you be more explosive off the bottom when the SSC is not completely eliminated, thus help break through your sticking point.
Which brings us back to your first point about the sticking point. Sticking points do not result from low RFD, they result from the strength/length (or joint angle) curve. Your best results will come from specifically targeting your sticking points (the saying going "you are only as strong as your weakest point") in which case isometrics can actually be of some help. Developing enough speed to break through them will also be helpful and I don't think anyone will disagree with you on that one, but that is why some people also advocate implementing paused bench press with long enough pauses and that will have a greater contribution than RFD. That being the case, RFD will also have a small contribution in this part.
I feel that this forum is pretty hostile in general to speed work and this is a result of the concept being misapplied. Speed work has to be periodized just like maximal work, and the correct loads and technique must be used for it to be effective. It is less effective than maximal effort work. It also is not a short-term solution -- if you think that speed work will send your drug-free unequipped lifts flying up by 10lbs a week (or even a month) you are being unreasonable.
I don't disagree that speed work has it's proper place in a lifting program, for a number of reasons (RFD is one of them but not the main one). I agree this forum can be a bit more hostile towards speed work than is warranted, but that hostility indeed comes from some people making all sorts unfounded claims about it.
EDIT: in my last sentence I wasn't referring to your post.
I thought you wanted to figure out how to improve performance in basketball!
