Rank Korean Zombie among Greatest Asian fighters of all time

[pankrat]

Sure. I got 20 in my head. When I get home ill find 5 more.

You don’t think he’s top 10 do you? As a longtime fan there’s no way....

My top10 all-time for Japan would be
Saku
Gomi
Sakurai
Horiguchi
Aoki
Kid
Kawajiri
Uno
Okami
Kondo

And I think he has a case above everybody except the top5 in there. Let alone a top25 list...

Im guessing you badly underrate KZ. First of all, he is widely recognized as the best Korean fighter ever, and actually the only one who has fought for UFC gold and has been top ranked for such a long time
So if you think he doestlnt even have a place in top25, you must think Stun Gun isnt even top50. Which is ridiculous.

Tell me Asian fighters with better work than KZ in the featherweight division.

 

[Natural Order]

No order....

Sakuraba
Gomi
Sakurai
Sato
Funaki
Tamura
Kondo
Minowa
Kawajiri
Okami
Aoki
Fujita
Yamamoto
Akiyama
Misaki
Gono
Sudo
Hioki
Yamaguchi

19 on head, let me think...

 

[Natural Order]

No order....

Sakuraba
Gomi
Sakurai
Sato
Funaki
Tamura
Kondo
Minowa
Kawajiri
Okami
Aoki
Fujita
Yamamoto
Akiyama
Misaki
Gono
Sudo
Hioki
Yamaguchi

19 on head, let me think...

25 might be pushing it, but point stands imo.

 

[pankrat]

No order....

Sakuraba
Gomi
Sakurai
Sato
Funaki
Tamura
Kondo
Minowa
Kawajiri
Okami
Aoki
Fujita
Yamamoto
Akiyama
Misaki
Gono
Sudo
Hioki
Yamaguchi

19 on head, let me think...

I could pick several of them but Hioki and Akiyama?

I mean Hioki and KZ share the same weightclass to make your bias even more obvious lol

 

[Natural Order]

I could pick several of them but Hioki and Akiyama?

I mean Hioki and KZ share the same weightclass to make your bias even more obvious lol

Hioki beat Roop. Roop starched KZ.

Why would you question Hioki? He was 26-3 in his prime and had just as good of wins on resume as KZ.

 

[pankrat]

Hioki beat Roop. Roop starched KZ.

Why would you question Hioki? He was 26-3 in his prime and had just as good of wins on resume as KZ.

Yeah and Thomas Almeida was what? 25-0 coming into UFC. How Hioki did one he started to fight ranked fighters consistently?
KZ did very good, and I suggest you to look at the fights not just the record because even in the loss he showed to be the superior fighter than Hioki, including against Jose Aldo

 

[Natural Order]

Yeah and Thomas Almeida was what? 25-0 coming into UFC. How Hioki did one he started to fight ranked fighters consistently?
KZ did very good, and I suggest you to look at the fights not just the record because even in the loss he showed to be the superior fighter than Hioki, including against Jose Aldo

Hioki went 40 fights without being finished.

KZ has a timeshare in the shadow-realm in 22.

Gimme a break.

 

[gono btw]

. Caol Uno is really good too. I was going heavily with what seemed like higher profile plus impact on mma/their society. .

Caol is one of those who literally put the lil dudes on the map, tho.. His impact was so legit that you could see him cornerin´ a whole bunch of fighters back then, a la TK...

 

[blaseblah]

He was certainly relevant. Thats why he was in such tournament in the first place, which actually won.

Apart from that void statement... You dodged the question. What opponent made KZ to be considered a top fighter?

So Okami losing to Shields before either of them made it to a major promotion makes him a great fighter?

Okami is great because of his wins in the UFC leading up to his title shot. His loss to Shields is irrelevant in this discussion.

 

[Kforcer]

Yeah and Thomas Almeida was what? 25-0 coming into UFC. How Hioki did one he started to fight ranked fighters consistently?
KZ did very good, and I suggest you to look at the fights not just the record because even in the loss he showed to be the superior fighter than Hioki, including against Jose Aldo

Hioki was fighting top guys fairly consistently before he went into the UFC. Marlon Sandro was considered one of the best in the world when Hioki beat him. So was Mark Hominick. Takeshi Inoue was very often in people's top 10 during that period. Hioki was disappointing in the UFC, but picking up the TKO, Shooto and Sengoku titles prior to that was very, very impressive.

 

[pankrat]

So Okami losing to Shields before either of them made it to a major promotion makes him a great fighter? Do you not realize how dumb that statement is?

Okami had actually fought and won in Pride and Shields was already a Shooto champion who had beat Sakurai fresh off fighting Hughes for the UFC belt.

Shields actualy left that ROTR tournament as a top5 WW, so Okami very arguably beating him that same night gave him lot of credit, and soon after actually got signed by UFC.

So other than discrediting that particular fight with pretty simpleton arguments, you still didnt answer the original question

 

[pankrat]

Hioki was fighting top guys fairly consistently before he went into the UFC. Marlon Sandro was considered one of the best in the world when Hioki beat him. So was Mark Hominick. Takeshi Inoue was very often in people's top 10 during that period. Hioki was disappointing in the UFC, but picking up the TKO, Shooto and Sengoku titles prior to that was very, very impressive.

I think that, even before that very dissapointing UFC run, he had some impressive wins but also several split/majority decisions and draws. A result of a particular fighting style that doesnt resemble in the least to the ever taking chances Korean Zombie and also costed Hioki some close decisions in his dissapointing UFC run.

I think Hioki was very good. But acting as if KZ being considered a greater fighter at this point is silly, as our fellow sherbro is doing, is not reasonable neither

 

[JustOnce]

Well, smashing Hall would be quite a feet. Even though, on paper, he has a style that almost seems lifted straight from Japanese catch/kaitentai style, whereas kaitentai entails dynamic action and no stalemates, Hall is a master at enacting stifling his opponents and putting them in a position where, even if they aren't being finished, they aren't really able to launch any meaningful offense. His inactivity--due to people ducking him or perhaps the UFC not making fights happen--may hurt him and he's no spring chicken, but he's extremely resourceful and intelligent and as I said, definitely great when it comes to shutting his opponent down.

Yeah it's interesting everyone's counting Hall out mostly anyways. Topuria looks like well rounded mofo with a black belt in BJJ. I think it comes down to how legit that BJJ black belt at 23? is. I mean Hooper is a black belt at 21? or something, how legit are those black belt BJJs? I guess we will find out because unless Hall gets taken down in round 1, I think Hall can get it down to the ground by some leg lock sequence or something

 

[JustOnce]

I think he did pretty well for himself, honestly, even later into his career. I mean, after losing the Shooto title to Shaolin, he still had a ton of great performances and wins, like his spectacular KO over Caol Uno in an all-time great war, his back and forth with Sakurai in the Pride lightweight Grand Prix, his TKO of Aoki and, even in the twilight of his career, at featherweight, his wins over Tokoro and Ishida.

Oh yeah, he did, but he was top 10 guy but he fell hard eventually, I mean afterwards

 

[JustOnce]

No TK?!!!?!!!?????!!!!

Oh yeah he deserves to be up there, not sure if he cracks top 10 but yeah

 

[D'z]

Oh yeah he deserves to be up there, not sure if he cracks top 10 but yeah

I suppose that's just debate. But up there, hell yeah, MF'rs the original UFC token Asian. Hell, he was in the original UFC playstation game!

 

[JustOnce]

Dont see Enson Inoue

Oh yeah Enson deserves to be up there, probably not top 10 I think...

so what's Enson like anyway? I mean I like Enson a lot, I remember talking to Enson about kid and stuff, he was really chill to Sherbros and I appreciate it's really cool and obviously he's a legend too

but I know he has some Yakuza connection, and he seems...don't get me wrong but a bit thuggish vibe to him...you know? I mean the last fight where he was attacking the goddam ref or the other guy's corner didn't help the perception much

 

[JustOnce]

I suppose that's just debate. But up there, hell yeah, MF'rs the original UFC token Asian. Hell, he was in the original UFC playstation game!

Yeah I think he's a legend too. I think he's ahead of KZ, if you think about it. I mean it's hard to remember them all, someone mentioned Gono here somewhere too, I mean more and more I think about it, KZ is outside top 10.

 

[JustOnce]

Hioki was fighting top guys fairly consistently before he went into the UFC. Marlon Sandro was considered one of the best in the world when Hioki beat him. So was Mark Hominick. Takeshi Inoue was very often in people's top 10 during that period. Hioki was disappointing in the UFC, but picking up the TKO, Shooto and Sengoku titles prior to that was very, very impressive.

Hioki to this day is one of the super prospects derailment of all time.

To be fair, in hindsight, it's funny who he lost to. Dan Hooker, Charles Oliveira, Ricardo Lamas, Clay Guida, and Darren Elkins. That's a super tough competition.

He went 3-8 after two wins in the UFC, losing even outside the UFC, so I think...those wins got his confidence for good, I think.

 

[Dude Incredible]

Hioki to this day is one of the super prospects derailment of all time.

To be fair, in hindsight, it's funny who he lost to. Dan Hooker, Charles Oliveira, Ricardo Lamas, Clay Guida, and Darren Elkins. That's a super tough competition.

He went 3-8 after two wins in the UFC, losing even outside the UFC, so I think...those wins got his confidence for good, I think.

He refused the immediate title shot I think, it's like he assessed himself against the UFC fighters before he ever fought them.

Caol is one of those who literally put the lil dudes on the map, tho.. His impact was so legit that you could see him cornerin´ a whole bunch of fighters back then, a la TK...

Uno is mega awesome. My list, while divine, isn't written in stone just the internet. If I went HAM like some folks and did more than 10 for sure. And mad respect for how long he's kept fighting. But in my brain I just see him getting melted by BJ over and over again and the draw killing the UFC LW division for a while (iirc)

Another late Honorable mention Mega Megu