Ramon Dekkers Man Or Myth?

[Kanka]

How good were all the non-thais he lost to?

 

[SandaKicker]

Thread title doesn't make sense.

A lot of people considering him a legend - the GOAT I'd say no.

What do you mean?

The myths are that he was screwed out of decisions in Thailand and that he introduced boxing to Thailand (a myth that has been echoed in this thread).

 

[Suriname Muay Thai]

Many casuals do.

And Dutch people
Which makes sense because (as everybody knows)he is Dutch.

Don't forget he was a pioneer, the infamous "Dutch kickboxing " style is inspired by Dekker. This is of course arguable, but I can tell you in Holland or Belgium you'll be hard pressed to find a "hater" (was also a humble guy). Google "farang fighters "and I'll bet you will find his name on most sites.

You cannot always judge how the people feel about their heroes by only using data and numbers. It's also the memory people cherish,and most were impressed with his relentless forward and attacking style. Some people say masvidal for example isn't all that cause of his record, no title ect. But people remember those "wow" moments .
Fought in five weight divisions.

Last argument I can throw is that Dekker kinda paved the way for future farangs , kinda tested the (dangerous) water , blueprint might be too much, but that also contributes to his legend status.

 

[Tayski]

You think Morad Sari is better because he won a title? There have been plenty of paper belts given out in the stadiums, even to this day. You also have to take into account who he fought. Ramon fought in the strongest era. Again, I'm not even arguing that he's the best but arguement a can be made and he's certainly close. Their are plenty of Thais from that era in the sport that argue that he is.

Morad Sari is a far fetch but when you consider guys like Youssef Boughanem, Toshio Fujiwara, John Wayne Parr, Rafi Bohic, Fabio Pinca and Danny Bill, Ramon Dekkers is a far cry in comparison.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Morad Sari is a far fetch but when you consider guys like Youssef Boughanem, Toshio Fujiwara, John Wayne Parr, Rafi Bohic, Fabio Pinca and Danny Bill, Ramon Dekkers is a far cry in comparison.

Depends on your criteria. The strength of Dekkers' case is he fought in the most esteemed weight classes in the most esteemed era and picked up elite wins. Yusef, JWP and Bill all greatly benefited from there being few skilled guys that they didn't have size advantages over. Not sure how Pinca could be considered better than Dekkers for his wins over Malaipet and Malawan. Rafi, Alamos, Skarbosky, Umeno and Kaito were all more consistent than him and could be considered better if that is your main criteria, but none of them have wins the calibre of Namphon or Coban. Personally I find Fujiwara the most impressive since he did it long before anyone was moving to Thailand to train and finished the reigning Raja champ.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Morad Sari is a far fetch but when you consider guys like Youssef Boughanem, Toshio Fujiwara, John Wayne Parr, Rafi Bohic, Fabio Pinca and Danny Bill, Ramon Dekkers is a far cry in comparison.

Gonna have to disagree there, He's right there with those names.

Here's the issue. Dekkers had developed such a mystic around him and garnered so much attention at the expense of others that the natural reaction for a non-casual is to push back on that praise but it's real easy to go a bit overboard on that push back.

It's the same thing with Buakaw.

 

[Tayski]

Gonna have to disagree there, He's right there with those names.

Here's the issue. Dekkers had developed such a mystic around him and garnered so much attention at the expense of others that the natural reaction for a non-casual is to push back on that praise but it's real easy to go a bit overboard on that push back.

It's the same thing with Buakaw.

I'm trying to look at it from as much an objective view as possible as I have nothing against Dekkers, I'm not like the typical hardcore MT fan who wants to diss him because people overpraise him.

What I can say about him is that he was among the first farangs to go and fight the Thais at their own game in Thailand in the 90's (not the first as some people tend to think, several farangs had already done that before him), faced tough competition, and he did win a few fights there (even though he lost many more than he won). He also had an impressive and aggressive style and won some fights by KO (again not as many as people tend to believe).

I still struggle to see how he would be up there with guys like Toshio Fujiwara who became the first non-Thai to win a stadium belt in 1978 and won much more than he lost even in Thailand, or someone like Youssef Boughanem who captured both the Raja and Lumpinee belts, or Rafi Bohic who's been among the best at Lumpinee at 147lbs and being the champ since 2017, etc.

But again, feel free to tell me what Dekkers did to deserve possibly being considered the GOAT.

 

[Bas ruttens big toe]

did dekkers not receive a commendation from the thai royal family for his services to the sport ?. surly that would add to the mystic of him . Ill always be biased towards him and parr as they were the first thai boxers fight .. in you tube videos many years ago

 

[SandaKicker]

did dekkers not receive a commendation from the thai royal family for his services to the sport

He did yes.

 

[SandisLL]

Dekkers did not introduce boxing to Thailand,

Of course no. Thailand knew what boxing looks before he was even born.
I don't know what connection with MT this had but foreigners did some boxe bouts (boxe not MT ) in Thailand in 1920 - 1930 ies so definitely they saw classical boxing.

 

[SandaKicker]

It's Danny Bill by a country mile. Not even close.

[/QUOTE]

Bill was bigger than Dekkers.

I’d also say prime Dekkers had better cardio and more intensity.