ralph gracie sf = grr. argh. bleh.

[RobbieH02879]

there is a HUGE difference from being competitve and Sadistic.. Slapping someone because they can't escape is sadistic if they are training for hobby, fun, etc..anything other than getting ready for a NHB fight it is ridiculous... I kickedboxed for many years, and can take a shot from the best..but some guy slaps me I would be furious if I was just training BJJ. Anyone that feels the need to slap someone from a dominant position when the other guy is just there to LEARN and has PAID his money from his ADULT job to train is just plain sad and shows some serious mental/control problems...

99% of people thet train BJJ will NEVER make a living or be a big time competitve fighter...the people who train do so because they LOVE the ART.. And most are GROWn FREE adults, you can't seriously think slapping around an adult when you are ALREADY in a dominant position is right, can you? Why not do it from the start on your feet? So at least the guy knows what to look out for... People train BJJ usually after long days at work, frustrating REAL life...and to go somewhere and get slapped, not from standing where you can slap the guy back..but from a ALREADY established dominant position is just kinda pathetic....

Should respect everyone that comes in, if they can't escape SHOW them what they are doing wrong..don't try and act like a prick and slap the guyw hen all you started doing was GRAPPLING...

 

[RobbieH02879]

BTW, I DO agree with old school BJJ, watch for punches etc...but it's different when you just slap a grown man around when he is there training after work or whatever the case may be. Hell, the Gracie Academy gloves up and hits..BUT the difference is that BOTH parties know what's up..not some mad at the world guy slapping around a lower ranking student or fellow student when the student is just expecting to roll...

All these stories about Ralph is heresay..BUT when many DIFFERENT people tell the same kind of stories you gotta take note... NOT a good image...especially when people are PAYING this guy and putting their trust in him to learn Jiu Jitsu.

Reminds me of the McDojo Karate Instructors who go overly rough on whitebelts, or take "cheap shots"... lol Kinda sad really.... I'm one of the first to stand up and comment on hating watering down of martial arts, since I've been involved with them since 1991.. but as I said, there is a difference from being "serious" and then being sadistic....

 

[teamcarvalho]

Thanks for the reply.

I thought I was the only crazy guy here!

Now I start to understand what Rickson Gracie meant about the essence of JJ is rapidly disintegrating as we move to a the sport era and instructors are only teaching students how to win in competition format.

I think the old school JJ just gonna disappear!

I hear you brother.....I am trying to keep it alive where I am at.....old school brother

 

[lechien]

there is a HUGE difference from being competitve and Sadistic.. Slapping someone because they can't escape is sadistic if they are training for hobby, fun, etc..anything other than getting ready for a NHB fight it is ridiculous... I kickedboxed for many years, and can take a shot from the best..but some guy slaps me I would be furious if I was just training BJJ. Anyone that feels the need to slap someone from a dominant position when the other guy is just there to LEARN and has PAID his money from his ADULT job to train is just plain sad and shows some serious mental/control problems...

99% of people thet train BJJ will NEVER make a living or be a big time competitve fighter...the people who train do so because they LOVE the ART.. And most are GROWn FREE adults, you can't seriously think slapping around an adult when you are ALREADY in a dominant position is right, can you? Why not do it from the start on your feet? So at least the guy knows what to look out for... People train BJJ usually after long days at work, frustrating REAL life...and to go somewhere and get slapped, not from standing where you can slap the guy back..but from a ALREADY established dominant position is just kinda pathetic....

Should respect everyone that comes in, if they can't escape SHOW them what they are doing wrong..don't try and act like a prick and slap the guyw hen all you started doing was GRAPPLING...

They are not slapping because they can't escape. There are several reasons why they slap.

They might have taken the striking out of rolling but BJJ is not just grappling sport.

Guys that want to train at Ralph Gracie are just not your average BJJ students.

 

[teamcarvalho]

They are not slapping because they can't escape. There are several reasons why they slap.

They might have taken the striking out of rolling but BJJ is not just grappling sport.

Guys that want to train at Ralph Gracie are just not your average BJJ students.

You said it man......Some people think that you have to do MMa to train like this....this has been part of BJJ since the beggining....its called Vale-Tudo...not sport

 

[teamcarvalho]

They are not slapping because they can't escape. There are several reasons why they slap.

They might have taken the striking out of rolling but BJJ is not just grappling sport.

Guys that want to train at Ralph Gracie are just not your average BJJ students.

Hey brother when you come out to Southern Cali....you are welcome to stop by and train anytime

 

[lechien]

BTW,

All these stories about Ralph is heresay..BUT when many DIFFERENT people tell the same kind of stories you gotta take note... NOT a good image...especially when people are PAYING this guy and putting their trust in him to learn Jiu Jitsu.

QUOTE]

A lot is hearsay but David Camarillo wrote about Ralph in his Guerilla Jiu Jitsu book. David is also a Ralph Gracie BB and has the Ralph Gracie logo tattooed on his back!

 

[lechien]

You said it man......Some people think that you have to do MMa to train like this....this has been part of BJJ since the beggining....its called Vale-Tudo...not sport

Yep, I could imagine some guys reaction when they show at training.

Instructor tells the students to take off the jacket and belt, then says: punching ok but not the face, only slapping the face and no kicking allowed. Remember guys, take it easy as we all have to go to work tomorrow..ok

People would just give you the look like "WTF I thought we only do grappling"!

 

[teamcarvalho]

yep, i could imagine some guys reaction when they show at training.

Instructor tells the students to take off the jacket and belt, then says: Punching ok but not the face, only slapping the face and no kicking allowed. Remember guys, take it easy as we all have to go to work tomorrow..ok

people would just give you the look like "wtf i thought we only do grappling"!

lol

 

[lechien]

Hey brother when you come out to Southern Cali....you are welcome to stop by and train anytime

Cool but I do not live in the US!

But I am planning to go to Brasil and interview some of the old Rickson Gracie's BB (I think he is 5 degrees) and ask him about the old days training.

I am sure he will tell me that there is no need for slapping as now we can all afford to buy MMA gloves. LOL

 

[teamcarvalho]

Yep, I could imagine some guys reaction when they show at training.

Instructor tells the students to take off the jacket and belt, then says: punching ok but not the face, only slapping the face and no kicking allowed. Remember guys, take it easy as we all have to go to work tomorrow..ok

People would just give you the look like "WTF I thought we only do grappling"!

Shit most of my guys would leave if I stopped this way of training....I guess that makes us a bunch of sadistic fucks

 

[lechien]

Shit most of my guys would leave if I stopped this way of training....I guess that makes us a bunch of sadistic fucks

Yep, people have no idea what is sadistic....

give a pair of boxing gloves to a BJJ BB that just got of the plane from Brasil and does not speak english..

then tell your students to only use Jiu Jitsu (meaning no strikes) against him..send the white belt once by one for a minute or two to get the BB warm up then feed him the blue etc...

Good time, my friend.:icon_chee

This is self defense class for us.

 

[RobbieH02879]

I do agree with getting guys to focus on Self defense, I originally got interested in BJJ WAY back in the early 90's and started training JUST for self defense/real fighting to complimanet my Kickboxing and TMA Black Belts...

And if Ralph's school is like you say, just for fighters, and trains guys solely for Vale Tudo and MMA..then that's awesome. But they aren't JUST a fight team, they take Hobbyists, and others who are just looking for a fun activity's HARD EARNED Money, that's where it becomes a grey area to me.

If the student realizes they will be slapped when they are exposed, then that is cool, no big deal. But some guy just starts slapping an inferior skilled STUDENT out of the blue is kinda ridiculous. As I said, I kickboxed for years, and coaches used to expose me when my hands were down etc, but the difference is I knew what I was training, it SOUNDS completely different, what these guys are describing is borderline sadistic. lol

What if a good boxer AND grappler or even just a wrestling coach started slapping guys standing, because the MAJORITY of grapplers are weak and exposed, it would be kinda ridiculous wouldn't it? Especially if they weren't expecting it or was JUST there to grapple...

Cesar turns out some GREAT fighters, and Relson's schools teach the old school BJJ..but I hear almost none of the negative issues, really I hear PRAISES

If guys could escape and had no opening, they sure as hell wouldn't be paying $150++ a month...

BTW, I'm just giving a different perspective/opinion. I've visted a lot of places over the years and have never seen anything like what's being described in a REGULAR BJJ class...EXCEPT from McDojo Karate Black Belts that always feel the need to show how "tough" they are. lol

As said, 99.999% will never make it as a "Pro" Fighter, they are there to train because they LOVE the art. If you wanna be sadistic or REALLY feel the need to strike, do it during the "Vale Tudo" or MMA classes....not during regular rolling sessions, that just SCREAMS "I'm a douche bag" with an ego problem... lol Or better yet, add some REAL striking training with good boxers or Kick boxers...

JUST DON'T try and slap a good boxer, or you'll end up in the ER! I recommend anyone SERIOUS about self defense to train with good boxers or even kickboxers in combo with BJJ, after a while normal guys punches will feel like love taps and look slow motion!

 

[lechien]

There is other ways of being sadistic:
double knee on solar plexus
single knee ride on someone head, preferably the back of the ear.
running your gi sleeve on someone ears to make them sore.
RNC people on the nose instead of throat.

Slapping is not sadistic.
It is like you get the mount, student is waiting for the attack and just laze around NOT trying to upa/buckle up or trap an arm...teacher just slap once or twice and scream "Porra..move.." then you will see some reaction and action..It is not as bad as you think.

 

[Kapu]

Isn't it the instructors fault in the first place if the student doesn't know the escape?

 

[thornton]

I was in San Francisco for a couple of days this summer for work and went to Ralf Gracie SF to train one night. I had a totally different experience than what others are describing. At the time I was a four strip white belt with a little over a years experience.

I got there early, Kurt told me to get changed and warm up, I would pay for class later. I got changed and started stretching out. Class had not started yet, but there was a group of students lead by a brown belt playing from specific positions for 2 minute rounds. Within a few minutes I was invited to join them.

Class also went well. I had no problems finding partners to drill with during the instructional part of class. When we went to live rolling, again, no problems finding partners. I rolled with several white and blues belts, all were cool. Nobody gave me any attitude when I caught them or when they caught me.

Anyhow, I had a good experience and if I ever end up back in SF I will not hesitate to drop in and train there again.

 

[lorus87]

There is other ways of being sadistic:
double knee on solar plexus
single knee ride on someone head, preferably the back of the ear.
running your gi sleeve on someone ears to make them sore.
RNC people on the nose instead of throat.

Slapping is not sadistic.
It is like you get the mount, student is waiting for the attack and just laze around NOT trying to upa/buckle up or trap an arm...teacher just slap once or twice and scream "Porra..move.." then you will see some reaction and action..It is not as bad as you think.

Its as bad as it sounds if the student didnt know about it first.

Imho you can do just about anything between to consenting adults, but its not really consent if you dont tell him 'bout the slaps before starting to throw them.

If the school accepted a new unknown students money before telling him about their policy on corporal punishment and then starts unleashing on him when he is physically dominated by another man in an unknown evironment then its not ok.

Good thing when these things get out.

 

[scyman]

Ok, so I think a lot of people are taking this slapping thing way over the top. I'm just talking about light slaps, nothing hard...just touches to show you you're open.

Regarding showing someone the escape rather than keeping them in the position...that's not the purpose of this type of training. People know the escapes, they just give up on themselves before they really need to. By not allowing them an easy out it shows that they can push themselves further and shows them how to dig down deep when it counts. This is why I believe the SF academy has many tough guys. It's not necessarily about MMA, Vale Tudo or street fighting, it's about heart, mental toughness, and not giving up when most people would. This is also why so many people get weeded out and the amount of upper belts is less than your average BJJ academy....but you can guarantee that the upper belts there are solid and tough. It's not like they won't let you out of a sub and will break something or put you to sleep.

Also, this does not happen to everyone. They understand there's many hobbyists and people just there for fun and fitness. If you are subjected to something like that, it's because they see something in you worth investing in. They see someone with the potential to be something and it's just a push to help you grow....either that or someone just sees you giving up on yourself too easily.

 

[RobbieH02879]

Its as bad as it sounds if the student didnt know about it first.

Imho you can do just about anything between to consenting adults, but its not really consent if you dont tell him 'bout the slaps before starting to throw them.

If the school accepted a new unknown students money before telling him about their policy on corporal punishment and then starts unleashing on him when he is physically dominated by another man in an unknown evironment then its not ok.

Good thing when these things get out.

+1

Slaps are almost like bitch stuff, meant to demean someone.. I'd HATE for a BJJ purple belt to slap the wrong guy(former boxer and college wrestler with BJJ et cetera) and get his ass beat... lmao If you feel the need to REALLY slap someone, then man up, stand up and go at it...or get some therapy! lol

If the guy you are slapping is there to fight, or knows he will be getting "slapped" to expose his weakness..then all is good imo. But if some much more advanced, or even worse an Instructor slaps his hobbyists students out of the blue, then that is pretty ridiculous, no matter how you sugar coat it. But whatever, luckily it's a free economy and there are much better choices than getting cheap slapped while grappling! lol But, there are ALSO MANY guys who enjoy being slapped around, why do you think Dominatrix's make so much money! ha

 

[Balto]

+1

Slaps are almost like bitch stuff, meant to demean someone.. I'd HATE for a BJJ purple belt to slap the wrong guy(former boxer and college wrestler with BJJ et cetera) and get his ass beat... lmao If you feel the need to REALLY slap someone, then man up, stand up and go at it...or get some therapy! lol

If the guy you are slapping is there to fight, or knows he will be getting "slapped" to expose his weakness..then all is good imo. But if some much more advanced, or even worse an Instructor slaps his hobbyists students out of the blue, then that is pretty ridiculous, no matter how you sugar coat it. But whatever, luckily it's a free economy and there are much better choices than getting cheap slapped while grappling! lol But, there are ALSO MANY guys who enjoy being slapped around, why do you think Dominatrix's make so much money! ha

Exactly.

There is nothing wrong with adding strikes to rolling. That's just MMA, and it's a great way to train.

However, you need to establish the rules before you start so both guys know what's up. If you're going to do strikes on the ground, then just let everyone know that. Don't just start a regular grappling match, then suddenly switch to MMA rules once you have the guy in a bad position. That is ridiculous.