ralph gracie sf = grr. argh. bleh.

[lechien]

+1

Slaps are almost like bitch stuff, meant to demean someone.. I'd HATE for a BJJ purple belt to slap the wrong guy(former boxer and college wrestler with BJJ et cetera) and get his ass beat... lmao If you feel the need to REALLY slap someone, then man up, stand up and go at it...or get some therapy! lol

If the guy you are slapping is there to fight, or knows he will be getting "slapped" to expose his weakness..then all is good imo. But if some much more advanced, or even worse an Instructor slaps his hobbyists students out of the blue, then that is pretty ridiculous, no matter how you sugar coat it. But whatever, luckily it's a free economy and there are much better choices than getting cheap slapped while grappling! lol But, there are ALSO MANY guys who enjoy being slapped around, why do you think Dominatrix's make so much money! ha

What are your view on BJJ graduation ceremony?

Gaunlet, ok? compulsary taking the top of ok?
1 trip down and back for blue, 2 for purple, 3 for brown, 4 for black

sparring with every team members no matter how tired you are ok?

 

[RobbieH02879]

What are your view on BJJ graduation ceremony?

Gaunlet, ok? compulsary taking the top of ok?
1 trip down and back for blue, 2 for purple, 3 for brown, 4 for black

sparring with every team members no matter how tired you are ok?

None of that has anything to do with an instructor bitch slapping a student there to grapple, if he knew he would be slapped, then awesome, it's better than taking a cheap PUNCH...but cheap slaps are just that..cheap and demeaning. we used to slap around guys who came in for challenge matches with big ego as opposed to hitting them with fists back in the day, a way to show superiority and break down ego..but never a teammate while regular rollling. What if the student started slapping a fellow student?? Is that acceptable where you train in regular BJJ classes?

It's like those new students who watched a few UFC's and start "pretend striking" while rolling to save their ego's, like they'd really have those openings in a REAL situation, all the while the more experienced guy is working HIS game and allowing the new guy into it...

As I said, there is a difference in rolling competitively vs "bitch" slapping a student..you wanna strike, then stand up and strike..or announce that you are doing "MMA" or adding in light strikes. But "slapping" an ADULT who pays the gym's bills is ridiculous when he doesn't KNOW or expect it..it's cheap. The sad thing is, most wouldn't say anything out of respect for their teacher..but I assure you, most gusy would be discouraged by another man who they pay to learna nd train BJJ from slapping them like children..... there is a reason why more people are speaking negative than positive.

As mentioned, I've been on both sides of the fence..hard core competitive training with REAL good strikers and HW wrestling in HS..and just casual grappling after my injuries. I do see where it would be beneficial to someone who is specifically training, as in a Vale tudo or MMA class..but a regular BJJ session, where no one else is taking shots..and the student isn't slapping back..that's just kinda cheap IMO. But to each their own, there are better ways to teach and motivate a student... if teh student is just laying in an inferior position then why not finish him?? That's usually what happens in a BJJ rolling session, one guy submits the other..not bitch slaps him.. lol

It has been an interesting discussion though... I respect your opinions, like I said..some guys like being slapped around! But most adult men who have families, real lives, pride et cetera it is insulting if done out of the blue...especially when the guy may not even be training to REALLY fight...just wanting to grapple...

 

[easy tiger]

I didn't read the last few pages of the thread.

That being said, something interesting: Iirc, a black belt on one of the forums (not this one) recalled himself (or another BB friend of his, not a BB at the time if I recall) taking a private with Rickson in the garage. Mid-roll or drill, Rickson threw a headbutt which caught the guy taking the private way off-guard. The guy is confused, and Rickson says "Always be prepared" or something to that likeness.

This type of stuff may have been more common than many people think.

 

[bora y]

Ok, so I think a lot of people are taking this slapping thing way over the top.

+1, this ^, and whatever else would represent agreement.

 

[Drew Foster]

Like I said, it's a love it or hate it type of school. A lot of people won't get it but for those that do, it does make sense and it's awesome. Regarding getting slapped while in an inferior position....I can say it may suck and most people don't sign for that...but at the end of the day that's where you'll learn a lot about yourself and your skills. Let's say at the time you're mounted and have basically given up, you may have just tapped because you're frustrated or cannot get the guy off you. He then begins to slap you and not let you out. This is a point where you either sink or swim, and a lot of people will indeed sink (in this case you're only getting slapped around so it's relatively safe) but sometimes that guy won't let you sink...you HAVE to find a way to work it out and eventually you'll dig down deep, not give up (because it's simply not an option) use what you've learned....and WHEN you do get out guess what...you've broken through a major barrier and realize "wow, i really didn't need to tap..i CAN get out" and every time after that you're going to know you can make it.

I had a similar situation happen to me as a white belt while at Ralph's...and looking back it helped me much more than it harmed me. It was part of the process of toughing me up, and really did show me my boundaries were indeed much broader than I thought. I appreciate it loved my time at that school. What most people don't get is how much people there live and love jiu jitsu. Kurt is not out to be a businessperson and doesn't like to even deal with any of that stuff, he just wants to train and share jiu jitsu and he's damn good at it. Once you get past that it'll make a lot more sense. Trust me.

I'vr had very similar experiences and they helped me too. But I do think not giving the guy clssses or refunding his money after not answering emails or the phone is a SHITTY business practice, and that's fucked up.

 

[Drew Foster]

are you fucking kidding me?!? that's a very shitty post, defending people who slap others during BJJ. you are either sarcastic or moronic.


that seems like a dickhead academy, run by dickheads, with dickhead students, that attract dickhead defenders on sherdog


what's more, the dickhead approach is stupid too. they just lost a potential long-term customer, and got a shittier rep thru word-of-mouth. idiotic...

While I said thse similar experiences helped me, I cosign this post to the fullest.

 

[Drew Foster]

I actually do consider this a great post and offers a new perspective. I've never heard of this slap training. Interesting. I'd probably sink lol, especially in a mounted position.

You wouldn't sink, trust me. When you're a brand new white belt and a Purple for 2 years guy has you in a mount and is tapping and slapping your head and face, at first I fought, then I went limo and tapped, then he said, "nope you gotta do something", and kept slapping me. I started bucking and rolling, moving my hips from side to side, using no technique, but he wanted to see if I;d try and keep fighting. I did, and I think it did me a service. This practice continued for a little while, then stopped. Me and an old coach still do it to each other every now and then, just to remind each other that there could be strikes involved, and to not stall. We don't slap anymore though, it's more like open palm taps to the top of the head.

 

[Drew Foster]

Shit most of my guys would leave if I stopped this way of training....I guess that makes us a bunch of sadistic fucks

Nah... The more you guys love each other, the harder you can beat each other up. It can actually build your team relationships even stronger. It's weird that it works like that.

 

[platfox]

How can you slap

 

[teamcarvalho]

+1, this ^, and whatever else would represent agreement.

I agree as well....Slapping is not to hurt the student just make them aware what could happen if they leave themsleves open. It also teaches them that even though they are getting hit they still have to accomplish the escape or they will sustain more damage. This is done during Vale-Tudo and sometimes while rolling with the gi.

As instructors we have to prepare our students for fighting..... I would hate to have a student come to me and tell me he got is ass kicked because he was not properly trained by me....I would feel I let him down. These guys pay me to not only build up their fighting skills but their confidence as well. I mean I have some guys that have never been in a fight in their lives and you have to kind of push them a little to over come that fear.

When I get a new student I always ask them why they want to train in BJJ and most of them tell me they want to learn to protect themselves.....the desire to compete comes later in their training. I always tell them what to expect during training so nothing is a suprise to them.

I know people take BJJ as a hobby or to compete and thats fine......but they also have to learn to fight just in case and rolling around all the time without strikes during training is not going to prepare them for that.

So if you guys train in BJJ and don't like the slaps then go somehwere else...its that easy...nobody is going to put you down for it but for the guys that don't mind then continue training this way and hopefully you will never have to fight in your life.

Remember fighting is not easy but the more you do it the more you learn to control your fear or anger.

 

[RobbieH02879]

I always tell them what to expect during training so nothing is a suprise to them.

Then I am in agreement, slaps aren't shit...try boxing with a pro boxer.. lmao It's not the point of "slapping" while rolling..

What I am against is a prick who is a loser in real life and takes his aggression out on students, basically bullying them...when they wouldn't do the same to someone who could whip their ass...just the low ranking kid or out of shape adult who doesn't expect it and basically slaps them around while in dominant position...

I'm all for training realistically, and honestly slapping isn't gonna prepare anyone to take a real shot, maybe give some a false sense of confidence...may as well get out the gloves and add in real strikes if you wanna focus more on self defense... jmo

But, I'm not against what you just wrote... I think it is a good method to ease students into deflecting strikes, keeping distance et cetera..I was speaking of the gusy who basically take out their own frustration on a paying student....

A good teacher will recognize a students weakness, and also the students GOALS and go from there....

 

[teamcarvalho]

Then I am in agreement, slaps aren't shit...try boxing with a pro boxer.. lmao It's not the point of "slapping" while rolling..

What I am against is a prick who is a loser in real life and takes his aggression out on students, basically bullying them...when they wouldn't do the same to someone who could whip their ass...just the low ranking kid or out of shape adult who doesn't expect it and basically slaps them around while in dominant position...

I'm all for training realistically, and honestly slapping isn't gonna prepare anyone to take a real shot, maybe give some a false sense of confidence...may as well get out the gloves and add in real strikes if you wanna focus more on self defense... jmo

But, I'm not against what you just wrote... I think it is a good method to ease students into deflecting strikes, keeping distance et cetera..I was speaking of the gusy who basically take out their own frustration on a paying student....

A good teacher will recognize a students weakness, and also the students GOALS and go from there....

I agree with you as well....I also have my guys put on the gloves and we spar hard during our Vale-Tudo classes....standing and on the ground.....but since these classes are harder than my gi classes some of the guys don't come.

I agree if a guy is slapping on guys for the hell of it them he should not be allowed to teach...I personally don't know any instructors that are like but there are alot of BB's these days so who knows.

 

[TyroneSlothrop**]

the problem is breaking agreed upon rules. i train MT and MMA as well, so I'm no stranger to taking shots to the face (that's what she said, hurr hurr hurr).


if you have an understanding that you are going to roll without strikes, and someone starts slapping, they are a bitch, simple and plain. in the same way, if you are sparring kickboxing and someone rolls into a kneebar, they are a bitch.


it saddens me that this patently obvious state of affairs isn't recognized by one and all. if people won't come to your mma class because thay just want to grapple, that is their choice, you shouldn't sneak in strikes when you have agreed not to strike. i'm sorry but you are a bitch. no two ways about it.

 

[TalkShowOnMute]

the problem is breaking agreed upon rules. i train MT and MMA as well, so I'm no stranger to taking shots to the face (that's what she said, hurr hurr hurr).


if you have an understanding that you are going to roll without strikes, and someone starts slapping, they are a bitch, simple and plain. in the same way, if you are sparring kickboxing and someone rolls into a kneebar, they are a bitch.


it saddens me that this patently obvious state of affairs isn't recognized by one and all. if people won't come to your mma class because thay just want to grapple, that is their choice, you shouldn't sneak in strikes when you have agreed not to strike. i'm sorry but you are a bitch. no two ways about it.

Yo, ya'll is not ready for the streetz son. Truf right thurrr.

 

[RobotToaster]

I didn't read the last few pages of the thread.

That being said, something interesting: Iirc, a black belt on one of the forums (not this one) recalled himself (or another BB friend of his, not a BB at the time if I recall) taking a private with Rickson in the garage. Mid-roll or drill, Rickson threw a headbutt which caught the guy taking the private way off-guard. The guy is confused, and Rickson says "Always be prepared" or something to that likeness.

This type of stuff may have been more common than many people think.

There are seminar videos of Rickson floating around of him demonstrating punch blocking. Showing how to shut down the persons arms from the bottom. Then he switches places with the student so he is on top and asks the student to go over what he has just shown him. So the student does what he was shown blocking Ricksons punches and closing down his arms. With his arms shut down Rickson starts to headbutt the dude. lol

I want to make it clear that the headbutting was simply tapping the student with his forehead to remind him that this is a street fight your training for and things might not always go according to plan.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

TyroneSlothrop;35554520]

are you fucking kidding me?!? that's a very shitty post, defending people who slap others during BJJ. you are either sarcastic or moronic.


that seems like a dickhead academy, run by dickheads, with dickhead students, that attract dickhead defenders on sherdog


what's more, the dickhead approach is stupid too. they just lost a potential long-term customer, and got a shittier rep thru word-of-mouth. idiotic...

Go Fvck yourself!!!!

It was imo a good post because he was explaining the situation over there at Ralphs. Not every gym is into being a "sport JJ" spot for the everyday grappler. Some gyms are into making there students tough in a certain way. That is what they are at Ralphs, and altho i personely don't agree with that philosophy, i also don't condemn it. They arn't trying to appel to the masses, they want tough as guys who want to learn a tough ass version of Gracie BJJ.

And yes, there is something to be said about a master not just letting a student "tap" whenever he gets into a little trouble position wise, there is something to be said about teaching a student to fight thru that position and not give up on himself and the training he has learned.


And further more you can take all these words from your post and stick them up your ass!!!!!!

shitty
sarcastic
moronic.
dickhead
dickheads
dickhead
dickhead
dickhead
stupid
idiotic...

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Isn't it the instructors fault in the first place if the student doesn't know the escape?

Its the instructors job to impress upon the student to trust what he has been taught and to not just give up. People just tap to whenever they get tired or in a bad spot they will not push thru and really trust the training.


An example. My 5 year old (six now) trains MMA/sub grappling and we teach them to tap early and tap often for safety reasons.

Well he had his first MMA smoker and he is doing great having fun and working this kid pretty good when all of a sudden in mid roll he just taps!?!!?!?:icon_surp Everyone is like "are you o.k.? What happened? Can you continue?" My kid looks up suprised and yes, "no im fine, i was just thirsty".:icon_neut

Im not saying to do it sadistically, but there is something to be said about making your students work out of bad situations. if you people can't get that fact, thats on you.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

While I said thse similar experiences helped me, I cosign this post to the fullest.

Boo to you sir.

 

[chino3]

Its the instructors job to impress upon the student to trust what he has been taught and to not just give up. People just tap to whenever they get tired or in a bad spot they will not push thru and really trust the training.


An example. My 5 year old (six now) trains MMA/sub grappling and we teach them to tap early and tap often for safety reasons.

Well he had his first MMA smoker and he is doing great having fun and working this kid pretty good when all of a sudden in mid roll he just taps!?!!?!?:icon_surp Everyone is like "are you o.k.? What happened? Can you continue?" My kid looks up suprised and yes, "no im fine, i was just thirsty".:icon_neut

Im not saying to do it sadistically, but there is something to be said about making your students work out of bad situations. if you people can't get that fact, thats on you.

yeah because the mindset of a child is spot on with that of an adult... GREAT analogy lol.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

yeah because the mindset of a child is spot on with that of an adult... GREAT analogy lol.

You'd be suprised.:wink: