Rafael Cordeiro's kicking advice

[Paradigm]

I was having a read in fighters only magazine and looking at Rafael Cordeiro's section, imo he is one of the best coaches out there for mma, so I'm a big fan but was a little confused with his advice under the 'master' section. He says with the roundhouse that 'you don't always have to turn your hip and throw kicks the traditional Thai way. Quick snappy kicks can catch your opponent off guard'

While this statement is obviously true, being advice for a master level seems a little strange. Personally I don't think throwing snappy roundhouse kicks and not engaging your hips are very affective, there will be no power and will easily be caught.

The only people I see throw kicks like this are complete novices.

In the pic of him demonstrating a counter roundhouse you can see he isn't turning the hip over and to me the kicks doesn't look good. It's hard to see from the pic, but his knee is pointing straight up (It looks more like a push kick)

Just wondering what you guys make of the advice and of the tecnique of his kick?

He's not wrong. Look at some of Machidas kicks vs the more traditional muay thai kicks. Another guy that comes to mind is Petti's body kicks.

I've been lurking on sherdog since the Pride days (yeah I'm cool like that), so I know just how deeply the striking section is tied to pretty much just boxing and Muay Thai.

For that very same reason you'll find people who will tell you that anything not thrown like a boxer or muay thai fighter is incorrect or not as effective.

Which I can't blame them, arguably those are two of the most effective striking arts around. That being said MMA in these last couple of years has shown us the effectiveness of other arts as well to some extent.

My favorite example of Rafael Cordeiros train of thought with this particular style of kick is Machidas employment of it.

He's a striker who's ground game is not as developed as a grapplers obviously. He doesn't want to get taken down. So he does a quicker, more stable, and easily retractable kick to his opponents midside.

Yes, but listing yourself as "Masterful Muay Thai" and thowing what isn't a MT kick is what grinds the gears with nak muays


Its definitely more snappy. I use a TKD snap type kick for my headkicks, its faster and gets the job done for me. Its not as strong as a regular MT kick for sure. If it lands on the chin, it doesn't take much force like the regular swing kick to get the job done. There are TKD headkick KOs, and they use the snap type kick.

But going back to history, Brazilian Muay Thai were originally TKD guys who added some MT in. TKD was still their base, which actually makes sense why it seems different from MT in Thailand.

Brazilian ''Muay thai'' is not muay thai. They got some weird style mixed with tkd and belt systems. Cordeiro is a good trainer and his style works but he should not call it Muay Thai and DEFINETIVELY NOT master level

In Muay Thai, some people also make a little step with the front foot towards the side of the opponent, to help them kick "through" and not just at the adverser. In Taekwon-do for example, this is a huge tel...Maybe that's also a detail to keep in mind?

I'm probably going to get shit for this but I think Rafael is a great MMA trainer but I was pretty disappointed when I saw his pad work videos from Thailand. Obviously, there's the TKD link to "Brazilian MT" that others have already brought up and you don't have to be great at a technique to be a great coach. For someone that uses "Muay Thai" though as much as he does in promoting his gym, it's a bit of a let down.

Never saw anyone from Kings MMA at any of the local MT events here in So Cal. Only saw him Rafael once at an event where one of his guys (Guilherme Almedia) fought a Thai (Rung Reung Chai).

Either way...you all can watch the vid and judge for yourself. Nothing special in his MT technique:

 

[ngarauru]

Also look at Sam A Ghaiyangadao on pads, never turns his hips over, pure power

 

[II Muchetto II]

Also look at Sam A Ghaiyangadao on pads, never turns his hips over, pure power

Yeah going to the body wasn't really a issue, it was more head kicks i was concerned about.

 

[roventu]

All i know is that he's been coaching since Chute Boxe, and he's influenced some of my favorite fighters: wanderlei, machida, shogun, RDA, werdum...all former champions

let's see how well Greg Jackson does on the pads. Yeah I went there @Paradigm it's all about coaching resume

 

[Paradigm]

All i know is that he's been coaching since Chute Boxe, and he's influenced some of my favorite fighters: wanderlei, machida, shogun, RDA, werdum...all former champions

let's see how well Greg Jackson does on the pads. Yeah I went there @Paradigm it's all about coaching resume

Shogun is probably the one guy there you could say that Rafael really molded as a kicker. How do we know that Dos Anjos didn't up his kicking game from his time at Evolve?

Werdum and Wand aren't really devastating kickers and I'm pretty sure Lyoto learned his kicks from childhood.

Also, Greg Jackson doesn't really put the whole Muay Thai thing out there. I'm pretty sure it's Winklejohn that does the actual striking coaching.

You also forgot Anderson, btw lol.

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

So, going by your statement all punches are telegraphed too.

Sorry but I just don't agree with you.

Why don't you just look it up, it's not hard to find via a quick Google search what most people mean about telegraphing a strike in the context of martial arts

Going by the definition of telegraphing that's useful in the context of this thread, yes, all punches are telegraphed. From a neutral position and mid range a power cross is more telegraphed than a light feint jab.

 

[II Muchetto II]

Going by the definition of telegraphing that's useful in the context of this thread, yes, all punches are telegraphed. From a neutral position and mid range a power cross is more telegraphed than a light feint jab.

It's a stupid argument, we both look at it differently. I understand what you are saying but I don't think there is a right answer. If my coach says I'm telegraph my punches I know he means I'm doing something before I throw the technique to give away what I am doing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegraphing_(sports)

You can read that how you want. It seems obvious to me, but if you read it differently then I'm not going to argue, as mentioned by previous poster, both correct, agree to disagree

To keep bringing it up and argue about it is stupid

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

Like I said, the definition that's useful in the context of this thread. The telegraphing you're talking about isn't helpful or relevant in this discussion, so no point in talking about it, yes?

 

[PivotPunch]

I'm probably going to get shit for this but I think Rafael is a great MMA trainer but I was pretty disappointed when I saw his pad work videos from Thailand. Obviously, there's the TKD link to "Brazilian MT" that others have already brought up and you don't have to be great at a technique to be a great coach. For someone that uses "Muay Thai" though as much as he does in promoting his gym, it's a bit of a let down.

Never saw anyone from Kings MMA at any of the local MT events here in So Cal. Only saw him Rafael once at an event where one of his guys (Guilherme Almedia) fought a Thai (Rung Reung Chai).

Either way...you all can watch the vid and judge for yourself. Nothing special in his MT technique:

I dont see what the trainers ability to fight has to do with his training abilities (beyond a basic level).

 

[roventu]

Shogun is probably the one guy there you could say that Rafael really molded as a kicker. How do we know that Dos Anjos didn't up his kicking game from his time at Evolve?

Werdum and Wand aren't really devastating kickers and I'm pretty sure Lyoto learned his kicks from childhood.

Also, Greg Jackson doesn't really put the whole Muay Thai thing out there. I'm pretty sure it's Winklejohn that does the actual striking coaching.

You also forgot Anderson, btw lol.

nah I didn't forget anderson, its just that Cordeiro has and is still coaching all those guys I mentioned. anderson has his own gym now. so its not like, oh he had some influence on his striking a long time ago at chute boxe. no its like he's the main coach of all those guys currently, so their current form is in some way a product of his coaching.

I don't really understand your argument.

1) Either its that his muay thai is bad so he's not a good instructor. (which is a weak argument, bc he's been in this sport a long time, has a lot of knowledge to share, understand how to train and improve fighters based on his resume - that is all irrespective of his own physical capabilities in his 40s).

2) Or its that none of those guys are really muay thai stylists influenced by Cordeiro because they're not heavy kickers? And I don't know if you're joking about that. Because the roundhouse does not make up muay thai alone. Watch the progression of Werdum's fights, once he was just a bjj guy, now he actively looks for the clinch, is a great striker, and regularly throws knees. Where do you think this influence came from? RDA has also made a very stark transformation, im sure evolve helps but Kings is his main gym. and Wanderlei also throws a ton of knees in all his fights. Clinch + knees IS muay thai.

lol