Rafael Cordeiro's kicking advice

[Universal Kombat]

Just because a technique takes longer than others doesn't give it more of a telegraph, it just gives the other person longer to react.

A telegraph would be if someone drops their jabbing hand before they jab, or doing a step up before they kick.

Techniques that take a little longer to land are more differcult, they usually involve a set up. Unless you are really fast with it. Some people have faster roundhouses than jabs and some people have a cross that lands all the time because lack of telegraph.

Again, it comes down to ones definition of telegraphing a technique in the context of martial arts. For me it's what you do before you throw the move to show your opponent what you are about to throw. It only takes a couple times of you doing it for them to have a good read on you, helps them either defend or counter easily. If you don't telegraph your technique then it will be harder to counter and less time for them to defend, slip, parry etc

Is there a set definition for the word telegraph in the context of martial arts? Because personally I consider the personal give aways like dropping the hand before a jab, AND things such as the initial twisting of the hips before the kick lands... both two different types of telegraphs.

One telegraph is unnecessary and the other is just a normal telegraph that's part of the strike.

 

[Borass]

According to me, the snapping roundhouse kick without "hips" is mainly effective with shoes... By the way, snapping and engaging the hips are not incompatible... When you look at Machida, or Kyokushin fighters, they engage their hips.

 

[II Muchetto II]

According to me, the snapping roundhouse kick without "hips" is mainly effective with shoes... By the way, snapping and engaging the hips are not incompatible... When you look at Machida, or Kyokushin fighters, they engage their hips.

Yeah, like I mentioned before, I do snappy kicks from my front leg but always engage my hip. The only time I might not turn over my hip is to the body under the flaired elbow, or to the leg for a bit of extra speed

 

[cakemuncher]

Not every kick needs to create damage, the same as not evey punch is intended to KO someone.

One could use such a non-rotating kick just to provoke a reaction and immediately follow with a damaging punch, especially if someone moves their hands to block that kick.

A non-rotating kick allows you to follow up more quickly with something else because you are not fully comitting your body/hips to it.

 

[II Muchetto II]

Is there a set definition for the word telegraph in the context of martial arts? Because personally I consider the personal give aways like dropping the hand before a jab, AND things such as the initial twisting of the hips before the kick lands... both two different types of telegraphs.

One telegraph is unnecessary and the other is just a normal telegraph that's part of the strike.

I think we will have to agree to disagree, I don't see you as wrong, just a different way of looking at too me.

For me the technique itself isn't a telegraph, more just the body mechanics of the kick or punch thrown in the best possible way for efficiency.

The actual definition is...

• convey (an intentional or unconscious message), especially with facial expression or body language.
  "a tiny movement of her arm telegraphed her intention to strike"
  
  So for me, applied to martial arts it means doing something before 'unconsciously" in this case that shows your opponent what you are about to do.
  

 

[II Muchetto II]

Th

Not every kick needs to create damage, the same as not evey punch is intended to KO someone.

One could use such a non-rotating kick just to provoke a reaction and immediately follow with a damaging punch, especially if someone moves their hands to block that kick.

A non-rotating kick allows you to follow up more quickly with something else because you are not fully comitting your body/hips to it.

thats a really good point, I didn't think about it like that but I think your right, it would definitely be easier to follow up with hands or to use to set something else up, a bit like a feint

 

[Universal Kombat]

Not every kick needs to create damage, the same as not evey punch is intended to KO someone.

One could use such a non-rotating kick just to provoke a reaction and immediately follow with a damaging punch, especially if someone moves their hands to block that kick.

A non-rotating kick allows you to follow up more quickly with something else because you are not fully comitting your body/hips to it.

Like those damn Gracies that threw that teep looking kick to the knees to get their opponents to react and plant them so they won't side step the take down.

 

[Universal Kombat]

I think we will have to agree to disagree, I don't see you as wrong, just a different way of looking at too me.

For me the technique itself isn't a telegraph, more just the body mechanics of the kick or punch thrown in the best possible way for efficiency.

The actual definition is...

• convey (an intentional or unconscious message), especially with facial expression or body language.
  "a tiny movement of her arm telegraphed her intention to strike"
  
  So for me, applied to martial arts it means doing something before 'unconsciously" in this case that shows your opponent what you are about to do.

Almost like a literary paradox. It seems we're both right. I'm not trying to pussy out of the discussion either. I really think we're both correct just see it differntly.

 

[mdcholakian]

Yes, but listing yourself as "Masterful Muay Thai" and thowing what isn't a MT kick is what grinds the gears with nak muays


Its definitely more snappy. I use a TKD snap type kick for my headkicks, its faster and gets the job done for me. Its not as strong as a regular MT kick for sure. If it lands on the chin, it doesn't take much force like the regular swing kick to get the job done. There are TKD headkick KOs, and they use the snap type kick.

But going back to history, Brazilian Muay Thai were originally TKD guys who added some MT in. TKD was still their base, which actually makes sense why it seems different from MT in Thailand.

Yes, but listing yourself as "Masterful Muay Thai" and thowing what isn't a MT kick is what grinds the gears with nak muays


Its definitely more snappy. I use a TKD snap type kick for my headkicks, its faster and gets the job done for me. Its not as strong as a regular MT kick for sure. If it lands on the chin, it doesn't take much force like the regular swing kick to get the job done. There are TKD headkick KOs, and they use the snap type kick.

But going back to history, Brazilian Muay Thai were originally TKD guys who added some MT in. TKD was still their base, which actually makes sense why it seems different from MT in Thailand.

What's brazilian muay thai? What are its difference with the original muay thai? And with kickboxing and dutch kickboxing? In kick technique and other...

 

[Universal Kombat]

What's brazilian muay thai? What are its difference with the original muay thai? And with kickboxing and dutch kickboxing? In kick technique and other...

Well you can already see simple differences in methodology. For starters a belt system, snappy kicks, etc (i ran out of differences so I said etc)

 

[spacetime]

I think his kicking advice is sound. Speed generates power too...

 

[roventu]

my best kick is actually a hybrid roundhouse and front kick. i hit with the ball of my foot to their stomach. it comes straight up, then i turn it over arcing into their body, but i aim with the ball of my foot into their liver (im southpaw). it works all the time bc they expect to block/catch a shin but i hit with my foot.

i think kikuno describes it as a crescent moon kick? I just call it a hybrid front kick.

 

[spacetime]

my best kick is actually a hybrid roundhouse and front kick. i hit with the ball of my foot to their stomach. it comes straight up, then i turn it over arcing into their body, but i aim with the ball of my foot into their liver (im southpaw). it works all the time bc they expect to block/catch a shin but i hit with my foot.

i think kikuno describes it as a crescent moon kick? I just call it a hybrid front kick.

Sounds like a modern TKD turning kick, with a different striking surface (usually instep for straight chambering).

 

[roventu]

Sounds like a modern TKD turning kick, with a different striking surface (usually instep for straight chambering).

nah, most of the time i dont chamber.

ive never aimed any of my kicks with the instep either. its a weird mentality, but i know when im kicking wrong when my instep starts to hurt. had to lay off it for a week because i didnt hit with shin. i guess TKD guys want that feeling though? conditioning i mean

 

[spacetime]

nah, most of the time i dont chamber.

ive never aimed any of my kicks with the instep either. its a weird mentality, but i know when im kicking wrong when my instep starts to hurt. had to lay off it for a week because i didnt hit with shin. i guess TKD guys want that feeling though? conditioning i mean

Yes, competitiors in TKD have conditioned it. it was originally believed to be too harmful, hence the ball of the foot from Karate.

 

[Azam]

nah, most of the time i dont chamber.

ive never aimed any of my kicks with the instep either. its a weird mentality, but i know when im kicking wrong when my instep starts to hurt. had to lay off it for a week because i didnt hit with shin. i guess TKD guys want that feeling though? conditioning i mean

It is weird though that ball of the foot strikes aren't done that often especially to the body when they imho are probably the best kicking surface to strike with to the body. Maybe it's the propensity to get your toes smashed into elbows that puts people off.

That said kicking like that does put a lot of strain on your knees. Kikuno is always wearing knee supports in his fights for good reason.

 

[roventu]

It is weird though that ball of the foot strikes aren't done that often especially to the body when they imho are probably the best kicking surface to strike with to the body. Maybe it's the propensity to get your toes smashed into elbows that puts people off.

That said kicking like that does put a lot of strain on your knees. Kikuno is always wearing knee supports in his fights for good reason.

i didnt know that about the knee strain, thanks for heads up. im wondering why does it put more strain than other kicking methods? i wear knee compression sleeves under my shin guards, so i guess that helps

 

[j123]

i didnt know that about the knee strain, thanks for heads up. im wondering why does it put more strain than other kicking methods? i wear knee compression sleeves under my shin guards, so i guess that helps

I'm guessing because you'd have to extend it more, look at it similar to using a leg extention machine, but with your hips turned over for the kick

 

[pookiyama]

convey (an intentional or unconscious message), especially with facial expression or body language.
"a tiny movement of her arm telegraphed her intention to strike"

If a strike takes longer to throw, it is more telegraphed, as it is an intentional movement that signifies and intention to strike. Slower strikes are more telegraphed. You can disagree with this assessment of the word, but you're going to be doing yourself a disservice as you will be squabbling with every trainer in the world over semantics.

 

[II Muchetto II]

convey (an intentional or unconscious message), especially with facial expression or body language.
"a tiny movement of her arm telegraphed her intention to strike"

If a strike takes longer to throw, it is more telegraphed, as it is an intentional movement that signifies and intention to strike. Slower strikes are more telegraphed. You can disagree with this assessment of the word, but you're going to be doing yourself a disservice as you will be squabbling with every trainer in the world over semantics.

So, going by your statement all punches are telegraphed too.

Sorry but I just don't agree with you.

Why don't you just look it up, it's not hard to find via a quick Google search what most people mean about telegraphing a strike in the context of martial arts