Economy "Radical" Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[LangfordBarrow]

We'd still need to have gas stations for a while longer to supply all of the new gasoline cars that are sold over the next 12 years. Gas will never completely go away either, not as long as you have people that garage their collectors cars and modern day cars they don't want to give up.

Just cutting back would make a big difference for the environment.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Not being on board with run amok corporate capitalism gets people the communist or radical socialist label pretty quick.

The only thing comparable in our society is how quick someone gets labelled an "anti-semite" if they don't fully approve how Israel treats the Palestinians.

It's probably the two topics more so than any other that have mechanisms to try to kill any nuanced conversation even before it begins. And I think it's pretty clear rules that wealth people created to keep the t.v.-educated rabble talking like idiots on the two topics.

 

[forum poster]

 

[Grenz]

Unless the battery life issue is sorted out, I can't see this happening in 1 decade. It's fine if you're only driving in the city or the highway, but what about those of us who hunt and fish for example? It's pretty common to drive to a spot that's a couple of hours away from any sort of civilization in the middle of nowhere and then you'll be driving the truck along the river the entire weekend. Works on a tank of gas, but one battery charge wouldn't be enough with the current technology (as far as I know at least).

 

[ShadowRun]

Sure, there will always been some legacy vehicles on the road for people willing to spend the money to keep them operating.

But as fossil fuel cars leave the road, so will the economic interest in keeping gas stations operating. The economic pressure will lead to conversion, just to ensure market share. Some places will take longer than others.

Let me use a car example - you can still find people who own cars without seatbelts. The law only went into place in 1968. But as far as the market itself is concerned, we've moved on. Those people and those cars are outliers, pretty much irrelevant to any conversation about vehicle safety.

If you want a more modern example, use airbags. The law was passed in 1991 and fully in effect by 1998.

So through laws?

 

[TeTe]

Do we have any economist in here that can state this is possible? I have to admit it sounds too good to be true.

Well, the feds didn't start taxing income until about 100 years ago. Maybe if we didn't spend so much in the military it would be possible.

 

[Kframe]

That may be but usually when people make these types of proposals, it's assumed that certain things will be grandfathered and gradually fade away with time. People will garage their collectors cars and modern cars but as companies stop making fossil fuel cars, they'll also stop servicing those cars and stop making the parts. As companies replace gas pumps with whatever it is they use for electric vehicles, fewer people will drive those grandfathered cars because of the difficulty in finding a gas station.

I don't think legacy vehicles will be that big an impact. The average American only owns a new car for 6 years and the average age of a car on the road is right around 12 years anyway. If we stop making fossil fuel cars in 12 years, they'll be probably 99% off the roads within another 12 years after that.

I can still find new manufacture parts for Flathead Ford engines. Parts will always be around for popular engines and cars people want.

 

[cincymma79]

Did she mention she was a woman and/or a woman of color yet? I’ve never heard her say that any time she’s criticized

 

[Kframe]

I'm not a big fan of the government mandating it but I find it hard to distinguish something like this from other air quality legislation.

I don't think it will take 50 years either. Find someone using an original iPhone. Still saving things on floppy discs. Still use their tape players to listen to music. They're out there but not in any quantity that matters. I recently that they're not even putting CD players in the majority of the new cars anymore...and you can still buy CDs, lol.

Cars are different. There are plenty of aftermarket companies making parts for discontinued cars. Hell I can even go and buy a new rolling chassis of a 1920's roadster..

 

[cincymma79]

That may be but usually when people make these types of proposals, it's assumed that certain things will be grandfathered and gradually fade away with time. People will garage their collectors cars and modern cars but as companies stop making fossil fuel cars, they'll also stop servicing those cars and stop making the parts. As companies replace gas pumps with whatever it is they use for electric vehicles, fewer people will drive those grandfathered cars because of the difficulty in finding a gas station.

I don't think legacy vehicles will be that big an impact. The average American only owns a new car for 6 years and the average age of a car on the road is right around 12 years anyway. If we stop making fossil fuel cars in 12 years, they'll be probably 99% off the roads within another 12 years after that.

I’m driving mine until it dies. Are we really saying middle class and below are going to have to buy these 40000 cars? How?

 

[bobgeese]

It's certainly possible

Jesus Christ, it’s a good thing you went into law and not engineering...


Let me make this as clear as possible. There is no way in hell we are off of fossil fuels in 12 years.


Carry on with your pipe dreams.


PS, @computer fogie

“Real change”

<{cruzshake}>


That’s not gonna happen. Wish it would, but...

Don’t get your hopes up.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I’m driving mine until it dies. Are we really saying middle class and below are going to have to buy these 40000 cars? How?

I'm sure some of it is the expectation of new or improved technology. Maybe these 40k cars will only cost 20k in 12 years?

 

[cincymma79]

I'm sure some of it is the expectation of new or improved technology. Maybe these 40k cars will only cost 20k in 12 years?

They won’t or they would now. It’s not new tech.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

They won’t or they would now. It’s not new tech.

Sig bet?

 

[Willy Womack]

I'm actually glad this girl is getting so much attention. The Democrat party might fracture before long.

 

[chardog]

I'm sure some of it is the expectation of new or improved technology. Maybe these 40k cars will only cost 20k in 12 years?

well there's supply and demand, there's also inflation. When I bought my prius plugin, it was a premium item, the baseline was over 20K as is, not sure how the price would go down that quick or at all.

 

[Ruprecht]

The 12 year timeline is from the IPCC. The US wouldn't be able to completely ditch fossil fuel use in 12 years, but aiming high will achieve more.

well there's supply and demand, there's also inflation. When I bought my prius plugin, it was a premium item, the baseline was over 20K as is, not sure how the price would go down that quick or at all.

Battery prices are dropping significantly.

They've already dropped from 49% of an EV's cost to 37% in the last two years.

Of course used electric cars are already entering the low end of the market.
Used 2012 era electric cars like the Leaf, i-miev, fourtwo etc are available in the $4-5K range in the US at the moment.
Admittedly they tend to limit you to around 70 miles range, but as battery technology improves and becomes cheaper, upgrading an old EV becomes a viable option. Nissan are already doing it.

 

[Brodels]

Yeah people should be punished for doing well in life

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Right wingers will never learn but they’ll constantly vote for people who help their demise.

“Bbbutttt why penalize the wealthy”

Idiots

 

[helltoupee]

I wonder if these Hollywood elite who throw so much support to candidates like this realise that they, too, are part of the "rich", and are going to be losing a fuck load off the top if one of these hardcore socialists get in?

There are people with such unfathomable sums of money, that they make what you think of as "rich", aka the "Hollywood elite", look impoverished. And all data points to the fact that their share has been continually increasing exponentially.

"While America's enormous gap between rich and poor and the sorry state of its middle class are well-documented, a less prominent trend tells an equally important story about the American economy: the divide between the well-off and the stratospherically rich.

"So this isn't really a story of the top 20 percent or even the top 5 percent of income earners breaking away from everyone else. The share of national income going to those in the top 10 to 5 percent of the income distribution rose from 11.45 percent in 1978 to 12.27 percent in 2013, an increase of just 0.82 percentage points; the share going to the top 5 to 1 percent rose from 13.09 percent in 1978 to 16.55 percent in 2013, an increase of 3.46 percentage points. By comparison, the share going to the top 1 percent rose from 8.95 percent to 20.08 percent, an increase of 11.13 percentage points. While the share of national income going to the top 5 to 1 percent has increased by about a quarter, the share going to the top 1 percent has more than doubled.

This is true even if we look within the top 1 percent. By breaking down the income shares of the top 1 to 0.5 percent, the top 0.5 to 0.1 percent, the top 0.1 to 0.01 percent, and the top 0.01 percent of income earners, we can see that the uber-elite are pulling away from the rest of the elite.

The income share of the top 0.1 to 0.01 percent nearly tripled; and the share going to the top 0.01 percent increased more than five-fold."

https://www.businessinsider.com/income-gap-between-upper-middle-class-and-very-rich-2017-7