International Putin signs mutual defence pact with North Korea, heralds 'New World Order' in meeting with Iranian president

[Rholk]

What I’m saying is Ukraine was much better in 2014 with Yanukovich in power than in 2022, 8 years after the so called pro European regimes got in charge there

Its not like Russia invaded in 2014 and the country has been in a war ever since

Am i doing this right?

 

[ViD]

Its not like Russia invaded in 2014 and the country has been in a war ever since

Am i doing this right?

Ukraine got rid of all Russian, Ukraine got visa free regime with Europe, Ukraine got a trade agreement with Europe. They got all they wanted. There was no active war action since 2015. They just ran their country in the ground while trying to create an anti Russian state and not caring about the economy, its own citizens, etc

 

[Limbo Pete]

Not sure that 2008 qualifies as "a million years". I'm honestly surprised Russia didn't put up a larger fight over the other former members of the USSR that joined NATO.

Uhhhhhhh

 

[Limbo Pete]

It was not an issue until NATO decided to expand into Russian sphere of influence

Well Russia sees all power as a zero sum game, so yes people proactively trying to prevent Russian occupation by joining a defensive alliance is... a "threat" to being absorbed lmao

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

It's certainly true that the media began putting huge angel wings around Ukraine after the invasion and quickly dropped narratives of corruption and anything else negative. That said, it's horrendous corruption doesn't justify invasion from another horrendously corrupt nation. It's an observation sure, but not a valid reason to justify what's taken place.

 

[Rod1]

Yeah, supporters of Western domination love to slag off the UN, the ICJ, international law and other international bodies. Any institution that questions is automatically useless or bullshit, or hypocritical, etc.

Weird because these international bodies were created by western countries and only followed in part by them.

Its useless precisely because dictators like Ortega don't give a flying fuck about them.

The exact quote where he admits that NATO enlargement is why Putin went to war embedded in the original post you quoted.

The quote you had says nothing about it.

There's degrees of blame, culpability, justification, etc.

Ok, but the decision to invade was made by Putin and Putin alone

Russia had legitimate security concerns with NATO's expansion but invading Ukraine is still a criminal act.

Ok, so we do agree that Russia is to blame for the invasion of Ukraine, not NATO.

You're not going to go from 700 years of autocratic rule to a Western-style democracy overnight. There were attempts at liberalizing and democratizing but they fell through.

??? democracy didn't exist in the past, all countries went from being "hundreds of years" of being autocratic to being democracies.

NATO expansion also made it clear that the West was going to continue to be hostile to it.

The West was in the process of disarmament when Russia invaded Ukraine, that's why Western Europe is scared shitless of Trump not following its commitment to NATO

 

[Rod1]

Of course Russia is closer to the U.S. and the West culturally, but there’s no other choice when you’re told you can’t be a part of it - you look for the alternatives.

You can't be part of the West unless you are a free, democratic state that isn't run like a drug cartel.

Vladimir Putin was the most pro western politician when he got into power - he visited Bush in Texas, he was the first to call him after 9/11 to offer sympathy and help, he was the one who allowed NATO to use Russia’s bases for their Afghanistan campaign.

Vladimir Putin had its own issues with terrorists, that's why they helped, even Iran wanted to help kill Taliban members.

 

[Rod1]

What I’m saying is Ukraine was much better in 2014 with Yanukovich in power than in 2022, 8 years after the so called pro European regimes got in charge there

Yes, Ukraine was much better before being invaded by Russian troops pretending to be separatists, we know that.

 

[Rod1]

Russia has already proven it does not need Europe to prosper, it’s the other way around. For Russia, Chinese and Indian markets have way more potential

Yes, getting paid in useless Rupees and China isn't as dumb as Germany as to use Russia as main supplier.

 

[Lord Pyjamas]

South Korea signals proxi war with North korea in Ukraine and will double anything they ever bring Russia.
While Europe can not use the billions of $ given from being a 10 times larger economy since even ramping up their war industry can not swallow it.
Things are going super great for Russia every year if you ask me.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Sorry but this has to be the biggest load of self serving delusional horseshit I have heard in a long time.

The modern world you live in has multiple mass integral contributions from all over, despite whatever narrative you've been led to believe. Why don't you start with the fact the modern chemistry, was basically invented and revolutionized by a Russian scientist Mendeleev.

150 years ago, the periodic table began with one chemist’s vision

150 years ago, Russian chemist Dmitrii Mendeleev created the periodic table of the elements, revolutionizing chemistry.

www.sciencenews.org

So yeah, thats most of the industial revolution and chemical engineering in all areas can be directly linked to this. The world you live in.

lol I do t think that’s what he’s talking about. I’m pretty sure he’s talking about the post 1945 world that has enjoyed relative stability

Edit: oh wait I get it now. You’re one of those goofs that think America is about to lose its place in the world to BRICS. That’s been working out real well lately for you guys lol

 

[Rod1]

No, no they didn't lol

There are degrees of blame.

Rapists have legitimate horny needs and while raping its a criminal act, miniskirts tend to be very provocative you know.

 

[lsa]

Not sure that 2008 qualifies as "a million years". I'm honestly surprised Russia didn't put up a larger fight over the other former members of the USSR that joined NATO.

Since 1948... Norway is a founding member of NATO and shares a border with Russia.
Estonia IIRC became a member in 2004.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

It just shows where Russia is at. They went from half the world being its sphere of influence, to basically only having petty dictatorships like Belarus and North Korea in its corner.

And China.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

I mean Russia has literally been arming all the terror proxies antagonizing things in the middle east for decades.

Wtf, that's our job! Rabble rabble rabble

 

[Cid]

Analyzing and understanding why something happened doesn't mean you agree with it happening in the first place.

I wish the US would have left Cuba the hell alone after 1959 but being 90 miles from its shores and having a government that was antithetical to US power and that was appealing to Latin American neighbors, the US decided to harshly punish it. I disagree strongly with this, but I understand its motivations. Not a hard distinction to make.

The war didn't start because of NATO expansion you useful idiot.

NATO expansion doesn't even make the bingo card.

Russian propaganda works by throwing out as many different justifications as it can for it's war. Even if they contradict each other because while dozens may not work (or sound plain ridiculous) all you need is one to land.

One justification resonates with a useful idiot like yourself and they ignore all the other ridiculous justifications Russia has given.

Ukraine bombing it's own people works on some useful idiots
Biolabs works on some useful idiots
Nazi's works on other useful idiots
most corrupt country on earth other idiots
Protecting Russian speakers works on other useful idiots
*This was the justification for Germany's invasion of Poland btw*
Ancestral brothers works on other useful idiots
Historically Russian works on other idiots.
etc etc

You're too smart for all of those though aren't you?

Oh no wait... NATO EXPANSION!

You want to know where threats to Russian territory rates on Putin's justification tier list you should watch his interview with another useful idiot.

It's quite literally the first question asked:
8 minutes of answer later and he's still rambling about historical borders of Russia 800-500 years ago.

I'm not Mearsheimer's manager or family member so I'm not particularly interested in defending every 50 second comment he's ever made. I agree with his opinion on NATO enlargement because I've read a lot about it, that's it.

And stop being a fucking spaz and tagging me on anything that pisses you off.

Bro your "intellectual" dropped his mask.

Don't get upset because your expert on geopolitical relations of the American Government thinks if Trump stayed president this would have all been avoided.

You should blame yourself for not voting for Trump. Smarter, more educated men like Meshwreiosej says so himself.

 

[TheMaster]

In testimony to the European Union Parliament, Stoltenberg made clear that it was America’s relentless push to enlarge NATO to Ukraine that was the real cause of the war and why it continues today. Here are Stoltenberg’s revealing words:


To repeat, he [Putin] went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.

...

The same critics also choose to hide or flatly ignore the dire warnings against NATO enlargement to Ukraine long articulated by many of America’s leading diplomats, including the great scholar-statesman George Kennan, and the former US Ambassadors to Russia Jack Matlock and William Burns.

Burns, now CIA Director, was US Ambassador to Russia in 2008, and author of a memo entitled “Nyet means Nyet.” In that memo, Burns explained to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that the entire Russian political class, not just Putin, was dead-set against NATO enlargement.

https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/nato-chief-admits-expansion-behind-russian-invasion

So that's the former NATO Secretary General, George Kennan, and two different ambassadors to Russia (one the current CIA Director) also saying the same thing.

Its pretty much irrefutable that NATO expansion has been the ultimate reason forcing Putins hand on this. I mean you have Jens Stoltenberg himself, former NATO secretary General openly admitting this which is actually shocking he would be that honest.
Logic though isn't enough to get the meessge across when you have forces of mass propaganda and media and group think creating an opposite narrative.

The war didn't start because of NATO expansion you useful idiot.

NATO expansion doesn't even make the bingo card.

LMAO
How much acid do you need to drop bro before you realize you are basically in the centre of the evil empire for the past near 70 years now.
Of course it doesnt make you a bad person, just an oblivious peon who has been conditioned to live in a parrallel reality like the masses.

Russian propaganda works by throwing out as many different justifications as it can for it's war. Even if they contradict each other because while dozens may not work (or sound plain ridiculous) all you need is one to land.

And now explain how US propaganda works. Lets see.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Since 1948... Norway is a founding member of NATO and shares a border with Russia.
Estonia IIRC became a member in 2004.

I assumed we were talking about former Soviet vassal states. I know Russia didn't approve, but they didn't get all aggressive about Norway, I presume because it was never in their sphere.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

If WW3 pops off and all the muslim nations are on the other side, we just spent 20 years filling all our countries with muslims. What's the contingency plan for that?

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Weird because these international bodies were created by western countries and only followed in part by them.

Its useless precisely because dictators like Ortega don't give a flying fuck about them.

Not weird at all. They're fine when they condemn African warlords and the odd Eastern European. But in the few instances when it criticizes US atrocities and US aggression, it's pointless, stupid, biased, a joke.

In the eyes of American chauvinists it should serve American power 100% of the time. So lock up Ortega, Putin, Kim Jong Un, but keep absolute quiet about Israeli aggression, Iraq, Afghanistan.

The quote you had says nothing about it.

WTF is this then?


Yet last week, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg committed a Washington gaffe, meaning that he accidently blurted out the truth.

In testimony to the European Union Parliament, Stoltenberg made clear that it was America’s relentless push to enlarge NATO to Ukraine that was the real cause of the war and why it continues today. Here are Stoltenberg’s revealing words:

“The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition to not invade Ukraine. Of course, we didn't sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second-class membership. We rejected that.
So, he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite.”

https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper...n-behind-russian-invasion?rq=jens stoltenberg

Ok, so we do agree that Russia is to blame for the invasion of Ukraine, not NATO.

Reckless NATO enlargement created the conditions under which Russia committed a criminal act. The blame should be shared.

??? democracy didn't exist in the past, all countries went from being "hundreds of years" of being autocratic to being democracies.

Yeah but they did it gradually over centuries. From absolute monarchies to constitutional monarchies, to limited democracies, to full democracies with civil rights, etc.

Russia had like 10 years of constitutional monarchy and then straight to single-party dictatorship for 70 years. Can't expect them to jump straight into late 20th century-style Western democracy just like that.

The West was in the process of disarmament

Source??