Putin makes Holocaust denial a criminal offence punishable by up to five years in jail.

[Gandhi]

When I popped in, you were implying that there was equal or at least comparable academic or evidentiary weight on both sides. That is not true.

I could be wrong, but I don't think he's disputing that banning is unnecessary.

He is not, he is just not to bent out of shape by it and asserting even where it's legal, the deniers are almost all lying hateful hacks

 

[Fawlty]

So is David Irving an academic or a hateful, lying, hack?

How about Ernst Zundel?

What a waste those two are. Of all the deniers I've listened to, those guys were the ones who seemed like they had real potential to offer interesting perspectives on history.

 

[uptheirons!]

So is David Irving an academic or a hateful, lying, hack?

How about Ernst Zundel?

Maybe Willis Carto?

Or L. K. Smith, Austin J. App, Arthur R. Butz, William David McCalden, Fred Leuchter, David Duke?

He is not picking and choosing, he is stating basic facts. The American Historical Association, the oldest professional organization of historians has said quite directly “No serious historian questions that the Holocaust took place.”

Anyone who asserts that the holocaust was grossly exaggerated for Jewish propaganda purposes is not operating from an academic stand point. They simply have a hateful agenda and no allegiance to the truth.

I don't support silencing them, but the fuck if they are going be called academics.

Just cause someone studies something and comes to a different conclusion doesn't make them hateful.

You're the same type of person who would've criticized anyone who said the soap and lampshades were myths, yet everyone agrees now they were lies started by whoever for God knows what reason.

If you agree that people should be able to express their opinions without legal repercussion then that's all that matters and I don't see why we're still discussing this.

 

[uptheirons!]

When I popped in, you were implying that there was equal or at least comparable academic or evidentiary weight on both sides. That is not true.

I could be wrong, but I don't think he's disputing that banning is unnecessary.

He made it clear that it should not be legal to spread "disinformation." In other words, if you disagree with the official narrative and you express your reasons for it then you're spreading disinformation.

 

[Trotsky]

He made it clear that it should not be legal to spread "disinformation." In other words, if you disagree with the official narrative and you express your reasons for it then you're spreading disinformation.

Meh, if it's as you describe, then you have a valid argument.

If a dumb person believes in good faith that shitty information valid, they can promulgate it.

 

[uptheirons!]

Meh, if it's as you describe, then you have a valid argument.

If a dumb person believes in good faith that shitty information valid, they can promulgate it.

Don't take my word:

Everyone is allowed to study it, genius. Absolutely everyone. And I told you the ways you can disseminate any history-changing information without breaking the law.

What you want legalized is the ability to for fucktards to spread disinformation.

Nobody is forbidden from studying it. Idiots are forbidden from speculating or lying.

Yes, that's what I said: it's illegal for idiots to lie about it.

 

[MacDuffle]

@uptheirons! hiding off tags lol

sweaty af trying to push an "unbiased" summary of this thread of all threads




Its pretty great to see you trying

 

[Gandhi]

Just cause someone studies something and comes to a different conclusion doesn't make them hateful.

You're the same type of person who would've criticized anyone who said the soap and lampshades were myths, yet everyone agrees now they were lies started by whoever for God knows what reason.

If you agree that people should be able to express their opinions without legal repercussion then that's all that matters and I don't see why we're still discussing this.

We are discussing this because everything you just said up until the last paragraph is bullshit.

You asked numerous times for examples of hateful non academic holocaust deniers. I provided you with a list of people that are the standard bearers of the denialist movement.

They all blamed the “myths” of the holocaust on Jewish propaganda and control, the vast majority of them were affiliated with right wing extremist groups and held views that were racist and anti Jewish. None of their works had any academic rigor to it. They are an embarrassment and deserve contempt and ridicule.

Oh and LOL at bringing up Lamp shades and soap as if we needed deniers to debunk these Nazis urban myths.

 

[uptheirons!]

We are discussing this because everything you just said up until the last paragraph is bullshit.

You asked numerous times for examples of hateful non academic holocaust deniers. I provided you with a list of people that are the standard bearers of the denialist movement.

They all blamed the “myths” of the holocaust on Jewish propaganda and control, the vast majority of them were affiliated with right wing extremist groups and held views that were racist and anti Jewish. None of their works had any academic rigor to it. They are an embarrassment and deserve contempt and ridicule.

Oh and LOL at bringing up Lamp shades and soap as if we needed deniers to debunk these Nazis urban myths.

I've never seen hateful speech attributed to most of the people in your list. When have Butz or Leuchter, for example, said anything hateful?

And you laugh at lampshades and soap when it's "survivors" who have made the claim, yet people would have been attacked for questioning them in the past.

 

[SammyPops]

I support this as the chosen people deserve special treatment.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

Meh, if it's as you describe, then you have a valid argument.

If a dumb person believes in good faith that shitty information valid, they can promulgate it.

Let's be clear: what I said it's that there are a handful of countries who cracked down on fucktards spreading lies about the Holocaust; it's still perfectly legal to study ( dumbass said it was not) and, should you find actual information disputing the mountains of evidence for the Holocaust, there are still many avenues for you to present your discovery and literally change history.

A handful of countries made the decision to hinder fucking idiots spreading lies about the Holocaust and riling up a violent extremist sect of society; dipshit is pretending they're hurting journalists and academics. He's also pretending that we don't know much about the Holocaust and the truth is unknown.

No, the truth is known and well-established and, should someone in these countries actually find info that changes everything, they still have avenues to publish it in newspapers or academic journals in hundreds of countries around the world. Hell, the fucktards still have the ability to spread lies in hundreds of countries around the world.

And if the fucktards would have been able to stick to academic practises (instead of lying and perpetuating debunked lies) and distanced themselves from violent extremist groups, they may not be suffering this pushback on their ability to spread lies.

"Won't anyone think of the fucktards?!" -- uptheirons! in this thread

 

[Feniamin]

because it is true. The germans are pragamatic they know the two countries not need be best friends and have similar politics to have good economic relations. what i think will happen in coming years is hungary and poland those who dislike EU liberal agenda will turn east. They won't leave EU and if they ever did no way they join the russian led EEU. But i think they anti russian views will go away as that sphere of world will be better than them being forced by EU to do things.

Well I don't know. If you judge by Russian political TV shows they think and say that Poland is the most pro-American European country and the most anti-Russian country in the world. I think not so long ago there were some project between multiple countries related to concentration camp Sobibor and Poland kicked Russia or asked to kick Russia from this project. And I think in Russian media they are still very butthurt about that thing. Plus, they take in Ukrainians as a students and as a workers and seems like recently it's like if you support Ukraine it means that you don't support Russia or Russia sees you as anti-Russian.

 

[Gandhi]

I've never seen hateful speech attributed to most of the people in your list. When have Butz or Leuchter, for example, said anything hateful?

And you laugh at lampshades and soap when it's "survivors" who have made the claim, yet people would have been attacked for questioning them in the past.

I said
- they all blamed the “myths” of the holocaust on Jewish propaganda and control
- the vast majority of them were affiliated with right wing extremist groups and held views that were racist and anti Jewish.
- None of their works had any academic rigor to it.

Leuchter is an academic fraud who falsely portrayed himself as an engineer and was found by several courts to have been unreliable as he distorted facts for his own benefit. More importantly, his infamous report was commissioned by Ernst Zundel, a well known Neo Nazis who used the report to advance his agenda of Jewish control. So Check box 1, 2 and 3.

- Butz wrote a book "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century: The Case Against the Presumed Extermination of European Jewry" that clearly calls the holocaust a propaganda hoax put on by you know who.
So check box 1 and 3

Your disproved urban myth point remains stupid as a rock and just proves @JosephDredd 's point. Rumors and false stories have already been disproved and accepted in the current legal/academic environment and the trash remains just that, trash.

 

[Gandhi]

Let's be clear: what I said it's that there are a handful of countries who cracked down on fucktards spreading lies about the Holocaust; it's still perfectly legal to study ( dumbass said it was not) and, should you find actual information disputing the mountains of evidence for the Holocaust, there are still many avenues for you to present your discovery and literally change history.

A handful of countries made the decision to hinder fucking idiots spreading lies about the Holocaust and riling up a violent extremist sect of society; dipshit is pretending they're hurting journalists and academics. He's also pretending that we don't know much about the Holocaust and the truth is unknown.

No, the truth is known and well-established and, should someone in these countries actually find info that changes everything, they still have avenues to publish it in newspapers or academic journals in hundreds of countries around the world. Hell, the fucktards still have the ability to spread lies in hundreds of countries around the world.

And if the fucktards would have been able to stick to academic practises (instead of lying and perpetuating debunked lies) and distanced themselves from violent extremist groups, they may not be suffering this pushback on their ability to spread lies.

"Won't anyone think of the fucktards?!" -- uptheirons! in this thread

Exactly how I understood you. Not difficult. It's illegal in some places, but legal in enough places that the truth is not being suppressed.

 

[uptheirons!]

I said
- they all blamed the “myths” of the holocaust on Jewish propaganda and control
- the vast majority of them were affiliated with right wing extremist groups and held views that were racist and anti Jewish.
- None of their works had any academic rigor to it.

Leuchter is an academic fraud who falsely portrayed himself as an engineer and was found by several courts to have been unreliable as he distorted facts for his own benefit. More importantly, his infamous report was commissioned by Ernst Zundel, a well known Neo Nazis who used the report to advance his agenda of Jewish control. So Check box 1, 2 and 3.

- Butz wrote a book "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century: The Case Against the Presumed Extermination of European Jewry" that clearly calls the holocaust a propaganda hoax put on by you know who.
So check box 1 and 3

Your disproved urban myth point remains stupid as a rock and just proves @JosephDredd 's point. Rumors and false stories have already been disproved and accepted in the current legal/academic environment and the trash remains just that, trash.

Butz is a tenured professor of electrical engineering who studied at MIT and has an algorithm named after him. He has more credibility than a sherdog troll.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Butz is a tenured professor of electrical engineering who studied at MIT and has an algorithm named after him. He has more credibility than a sherdog troll.

Electrical engineer =/= historian

 

[uptheirons!]

Electrical engineer =/= historian

Anyone who studies history can be a historian. The fact is that he's highly educated and intelligent, unlike most of the people posting here.

 

[Gandhi]

Butz is a tenured professor of electrical engineering who studied at MIT and has an algorithm named after him. He has more credibility than a sherdog troll.

That gives him exactly 0% credibility to speak on the holocaust, a fact his university has repeatedly stated.

Should I listen to tax advice from Keenan Cornelius, he is a world BJJ champ after all?

And your shit logic getting pushed in = / = me being a troll.

 

[Gandhi]

Anyone who studies history can be a historian. The fact is that he's highly educated and intelligent, unlike most of the people posting here.

Credentials required, zero!!!!!!!!

Just like your fake engineer who wrote a report on gas chambers for a renowned Neo Nazis.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Anyone who studies history can be a historian.

<{cruzshake}>