Pullups: Negatives

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Chilito, Nov 21, 2005.

  1. Chilito

    Chilito White Belt

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    I've heard that doing negatives can help if you cannot do one pullup. My question is this: If I can do a few (6-7) will doing negatives at the end of each set help to increase my numbers? Thanks in advance for advice.
     
  2. tf

    tf Inside BJJ Podcast

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    negatives create a deerp inroad into your body's recover ability. the basic idea here is that you exhaust your positive workload capabilities before your negative workload capabilities. so in the case of a pullup, the positive workload is the act of pulling yourself up and the negative workload is lowering yourself down. when you exhaust your ability to perform the positive workload, you still have the ability to perform the negative workload, the idea here is to tax the negative workload to momentary muscular failure. this creates a deeper inroad into your recovery and your body responds by over-compensating muscle to ensure that next your bodies faced with the same workload demands it can perform it. that's the theory at least. the main thing here is to make sure you couple negative work with plenty of rest in between workouts because negative work taxes your system more.
     
  3. Kaban

    Kaban White Belt

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    I think that holding the flexed position for as long as possible and mid-position as long as possible can be better than just doing negatives.
    Also negatives with control, done slowly are pretty good.
     
  4. LCDforMe

    LCDforMe Purple Belt

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    I was doing these negatives the other night and would try to lower myself down to the count of 5 on a clock. They are difficult and in a few weeks, I'll see if doing these will help me with my incredible pull up count of 2 right now.
     
  5. LPF4

    LPF4 Blue Belt

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    I've never done any negatives on pull ups so I can't comment on them.

    I you want to do more pull ups check out the Charles Armstrong pull up routine. SEE BELOW at the bottom.

    I started with his routine which I modified slightly and began with 4 pull ups and have progressed to 15. Still not were I want to be, but at least respectable.

    In the beginning you are going to be sore as hell.

    Sorry for the long post.

    1. This program was used by Major Charles Lewis Armstrong, USMC to prepare himself to attempt to set a world record in number of pull-ups completed in a single exercise session. The program provides the necessities for successful physical improvement namely, VARIETY, OVERLOAD, and REGULARITY. Users have achieved remarkable results in only 6 to 8 weeks. This means that most, if not all, have been able to meet the performance level they have set out to achieve, a single set of twenty repetitions.

    It can not be overemphasized that his program depends upon regularity. Daily performance of the exercises listed in the following paragraphs holds the true key to reaching and to maintaining the twenty repetition level.

    The Morning Routine

    Each morning perform three maximum effort sets of normal pushups. The pushup is one of the best, single exercises for strengthening the entire set of muscles that makes up the shoulder girdle. Major Armstrong described his morning routine in the following manner.
     
  6. Chilito

    Chilito White Belt

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    LPF4,
    Your postwas incredibly helpful, thanks alot. I know if it came from a Marine it must work, I'll definately try it out.
     
  7. LPF4

    LPF4 Blue Belt

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    Good luck. You'll have to read the workout a few times to understand the training sets.

    Also, I never did the pushups and limited it to 4 days a week. Keep a log.
     
  8. bouwnt

    bouwnt Banned Banned

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    Good post LPF4, I'll definitely try it out.
     
  9. Grady

    Grady Blue Belt

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    Actually, I'm pretty interested in seeing more discussion on the original question regarding negatives, more than the Charles Armstrong routine. Also - that routine - there is very little room for rest and recovery in there, leading me to believe that it is either (a) not optimal or (b) rest & recovery is overrated for pullups.

    Tf said
    What is the consensus on training negatives in general? Isn't think akin to training to failure (a no-no)?
     
  10. bacon

    bacon Silver Belt

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    LOL! I just posted something about negatives in King Kabuki's training log. I've been stuck at 12 for quite some time. Recently, I started going to failure and then putting my toes (legs bent at a 90 behind me) on the top of a ladder to assist myself through 3-4 more reps, but lifting my toes off the ladder on the negative. I don't know if it has helped me yet. Today is my pull day. I'll let you know the results tomorrow.

    As far as negatives in general....I am by no means an authority. ENTROPY????
    BTW, I use a wide grip and I do them from my 2x4 rafters.


    Edit: Nice post LPF4, thanks for the public service.
     
  11. Tornado

    Tornado Blue Belt

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    negatives are fine if you can't do pullups but I wouldn't recommend more than one rep at a time and only a couple of set because of the damage they case.

    you still have to try to do pullups, even if you're doing partial reps and working on increasing the distance you move your body with each pull.
     
  12. Grady

    Grady Blue Belt

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    Bacon, let me know how it goes. I've been stuck on pullup reps for a while. But I don't want to add negatives without knowing a little bit more as to the advantages / disadvantages.

    Maybe the assisted pullups you do are better than a negative, since you train the concentric movement. I wish I understood this a bit better.
     
  13. deadlyshaolin

    deadlyshaolin euphoria

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    I must share this with you, since it has helped me so much. The absolute best way to do pullups is with a spotter. When you have difficulty doing any more, he'll help you up by pushing up with his hands. Your spotter's hands should be around your mid-lower back on either side.

    I can usually 3-4 extra pullups with a spotter's help, and it absolutely BLASTS my back/lats. Guaranteed soreness the next few days.
     
  14. bacon

    bacon Silver Belt

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    Yesterday was pull day. My max pullups in a single sitting is 12. I've been doing 3-4 self assisted reps after failure by putting my toes on a ladder (legs are at a 90 behind me). I've done this for two weeks and here are the results:

    Jack and Shit. I pumped out 10 smooth pullups and hit the wall at 11. 12 was a bitch. I've decided to knockoff the :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:ry and attack my pullup max with more frequency. I'll be doing a hybrid routine based on what LPF4 posted. Verdict...Negatives might work for some people, but my body ain't havin it. I WILL be doing 15 by Feb!

    BTW
    Ht: 6
    Wt: 170
     
  15. deadlyshaolin

    deadlyshaolin euphoria

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    I mentioned spotted pullups a few posts up. The other thing I've done that has helped is to perform weighted pullups. I tack on one of those belts with chains and attach a 25-45lb dumbbell. If you can do ~12 regular BW pullups, you should try doing a few weighted ones.

    Your body will adapt to the increased weight, so that going back down to BW will be easier.
     
  16. bacon

    bacon Silver Belt

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    Weighted pullups are part of my normal routine. I use a backpack with a 10 to 20 lbs in it. That's what I credit for getting me to 12.
     
  17. LPF4

    LPF4 Blue Belt

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    Bacon,
    Can you describe what you've been doing and how long?

    As deadlyshaolin mentioned, I just started 3 weeks ago using weighted pullups.

    Here's what I'm trying now. Monday, 3 pullups with 20, 30, 40, 50, 40, 30, 20 (#-lbs). Tuesday 10 sets of 5 pullups using 10# (each set is on the minute). Wednesday 5 sets of 10 using various grips.

    I think I'd be better off dropping the heavy weigths on Monday, it contradicts muscle mass vs. muslce endurance, but I'd like to do some one arm pullups eventually.

    Also, I'm going to try to learn the kipping pullup as described on the Crossfit website. I've only heard good things about it.

    Sorry to highjack the negative topic.
     
  18. bacon

    bacon Silver Belt

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    I used to do pyramids 2 times a week but I never made any gains. A few months ago, one of my friends (fireman) told me to try them with a weight vest. I try to avoid being the standard issue american consumer whenever possible, so I put 10 lbs in a backpack and hit my rafters. I'm up to twelve reps in one sitting.

    I'm planning on taking your advice from above, and I'll probably start adding weight to the backpack too. Normally, a spotter would be out of the question because I truly injoy working out alone (I hate gyms. Too many damn distractions) Recently my brother-in-law moved in with me so I might ask him to spot me later down the road. I think I can get to 15 on my own though.
     
  19. Placebo_

    Placebo_ Yellow Belt

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    People try to overcomplicate things way too much. If you want to do more pullups, do more pullups more often. I went from being able to do less than 10 to more than 20 lockouts in a short period of time by simply do a set of pullups everytime I went into the basement. Your body will adapt just give it ample rest and food to recover on.
     
  20. NLife1

    NLife1 Orange Belt

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    Let me give all of you the best advice I can. I am a Marine; I have been through boot camp. When we were there, we did pullups several times a day: assisted, solo, with support bands. Anyway we could be doing pullups, we were doing pullups. And when it comes to doing pullups, Marines are the ones you want to talk to. It's what we do. Like Grady was saying earlier, I thought that the body needed the rest and recovery time in order to maximize gains. I was wrong. I went to boot camp barely doing 3 pullups, the minimum required to pass the initial strength test. At the end of the 13 weeks, I did 12 on the final physical fitness test. I could have pushed myself harder when it came to pullups. The back is a large muscle; it can handle a heavy workload. Plus, the given workout allows for rest on the weekends. Max effort pushup sets shouldn't really break down your muscles.
     

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