Pulling a kneeling opponent backward = dangerous?

[Kenny from MD]

I have read some DUMB posts in my life, but this, this takes the taco pals.

 

[Balto]

I poorly worded that let me try it again.

30-40 years ago Karate tournaments were bloody knock down affairs, now people rag on it as being slappy tappy garbage.If you start regulating and restricting techniques based on the defenders stupidity, then you really would end up with a wimpy "sport BJJ" that was not actually effective vs. the current state were there really is not really a difference between sport BJJ and BJJ for self-defense.

Most Karate tournaments were not bloody knock down affairs 30-40 years ago. I have a shodan in Okinawan Kenpo, and my instructors fought 30-40 years ago.

Mainstream Karate tournaments were still point fighting back then. They did fight somewhat differently than what you will see today, but it was not a full contact bloody affair. For example, Chuck Norris was a Karate champion for several years back then, but it was very limited contact.

Kickboxing was in fact invented at this time in order to find a way to make Karate full contact. Kickboxing was originally called Full Contact Karate. That's why you still see the long pants and chambered kicks only above the waist in old style Kickboxing; it grew directly out of Karate.

 

[Mat Nemesis**]

yeah frowned upon

really?

I have had it done to me and it maybe hurt a little but knew it was my fault.

If people are gonna cry about that maybe they should take up poker.

 

[irc]

really?

I have had it done to me and it maybe hurt a little but knew it was my fault.

If people are gonna cry about that maybe they should take up poker.

Naw man, it's not cool to pull someone back like that. It's like smashing someone's jaw with a choke. You can get them to tap but if you're just rolling, why mess around with jacking up your partner. Maybe *you* should take up poker.

 

[Kenny from MD]

Naw man, it's not cool to pull someone back like that. It's like smashing someone's jaw with a choke. You can get them to tap but if you're just rolling, why mess around with jacking up your partner. Maybe *you* should take up poker.

Its attitudes like this that get in the way of people who want to take jiu jitsu seriously and train for real. I cant believe there are actually people debating this. If you want want me to pull you backwards, don

 

[barnowl]

Most Karate tournaments were not bloody knock down affairs 30-40 years ago. I have a shodan in Okinawan Kenpo, and my instructors fought 30-40 years ago.

Mainstream Karate tournaments were still point fighting back then. They did fight somewhat differently than what you will see today, but it was not a full contact bloody affair. For example, Chuck Norris was a Karate champion for several years back then, but it was very limited contact.

Kickboxing was in fact invented at this time in order to find a way to make Karate full contact. Kickboxing was originally called Full Contact Karate. That's why you still see the long pants and chambered kicks only above the waist in old style Kickboxing; it grew directly out of Karate.

That may just have been the tournaments I have footage of and have seen footage of then. The fighters all ended up with bloody, and broken. They were still point matches but the contact level was full on contact, and K.O.s were wins. I know by the late 70's, early 80's those kinds of matches had pretty much gone away.

 

[irc]

Its attitudes like this that get in the way of people who want to take jiu jitsu seriously and train for real. I cant believe there are actually people debating this. If you want want me to pull you backwards, don

 

[Kenny from MD]

The bottom line is it's not a cool thing to do to your partner. I don't get pulled backwards like that because, yeah, at a high purple level I don't do something as stupid as put myself in that position if I'm rolling.

It's not the worst thing a guy could do, but why do it in training? Obviously the guy getting pulled would be inexperienced.

But whatever. Go run along and take your jiu jitsu seriously and train for real.

Bottom line, is if you are seriously complaining about this, you are a vagina.
And I will go run along and take my jiu jitsu seriously and train for real, multiple times today in fact. That will be the difference between where jiu jitsu takes me, and where it takes you.

 

[irc]

Bottom line, is if you are seriously complaining about this, you are a vagina.
And I will go run along and take my jiu jitsu seriously and train for real, multiple times today in fact. That will be the difference between where jiu jitsu takes me, and where it takes you.

Okay dude, have fun training today. You're super cool.

 

[879lexus]

In training do you really want to hurt your partner??? I know you want to submit your partner.... There's a difference...There are other ways to bring the person down in that position. Why not practice that instead. I could understand in a street fight, you wouldn't care, but you're in class (the safe zone, place where you can practice your techniques).

If you hurt that person, it's one person less the class has to roll with....
It's not like a submission...how would that person tap you if you tackle him like that. You can do some real damage quickly to a training partner? At your school?

 

[redaxe]

Okay dude, have fun training today. You're super cool.

He's not just super cool, he's Savercool.



...no homo

 

[sha]

Bottom line, is if you are seriously complaining about this, you are a vagina.
And I will go run along and take my jiu jitsu seriously and train for real, multiple times today in fact. That will be the difference between where jiu jitsu takes me, and where it takes you.

Let's talk about this again when you have a blown ACL. You should always take care of your training partners, and any explosive movement which has a high likelihood of causing serious injuries should not be used in training.

 

[3dsmax]

I am still trying it figure out exactly how you have to position your feet in a way that it would hurt your knees when pulled backwards. I've been pulled backwards countless times myself so I don't see what the big deal is.

Sorry if this is irrelevant - when somebody is in closed guard with their feet pointing out then they are in danger of hurting their knees and/or ankles if their opponent goes for hip bump sweep. How often do you look at your opponents feet while going for that sweep?

All I know is that there are a lot of little tricks that keep you safe from getting hurt, such as proper foot positioning. This is something that must be learned by everybody. Everybody knows things like keeping your posture and both arms in or both arms out, while mainly ignoring the little things like this. Learn the safe way to roll and stop complaining.

 

[El Beebo]

I am still trying it figure out exactly how you have to position your feet in a way that it would hurt your knees when pulled backwards. I've been pulled backwards countless times myself so I don't see what the big deal is.

Sorry if this is irrelevant - when somebody is in closed guard with their feet pointing out then they are in danger of hurting their knees and/or ankles if their opponent goes for hip bump sweep. How often do you look at your opponents feet while going for that sweep?

All I know is that there are a lot of little tricks that keep you safe from getting hurt, such as proper foot positioning. This is something that must be learned by everybody. Everybody knows things like keeping your posture and both arms in or both arms out, while mainly ignoring the little things like this. Learn the safe way to roll and stop complaining.

You make a good point regarding the hip bump sweep. There are a lot of movements that can be dangerous in this sport, I just choose, in training (not comp) to stay away from movements that I know can potentially hurt my partner, and pulling straight back on a turtled partner is one of those.

Some people don't care about that stuff, and I've seen torn ACLs, dislocated elbows, separated shoulders, chipped teeth, broken toes and all sorts of other injuries that probably could've been prevented if someone had just taken a little more care in what they were doing. I don't feel like I'm wussifying the sport if I don't break my training partner's finger when his hand accidentally gets wrapped in my gi--I just stop the action, let him get his finger out, and proceed with the roll. I guess it's just personal preference.

 

[Balto]

You make a good point regarding the hip bump sweep. There are a lot of movements that can be dangerous in this sport, I just choose, in training (not comp) to stay away from movements that I know can potentially hurt my partner, and pulling straight back on a turtled partner is one of those.

Some people don't care about that stuff, and I've seen torn ACLs, dislocated elbows, separated shoulders, chipped teeth, broken toes and all sorts of other injuries that probably could've been prevented if someone had just taken a little more care in what they were doing. I don't feel like I'm wussifying the sport if I don't break my training partner's finger when his hand accidentally gets wrapped in my gi--I just stop the action, let him get his finger out, and proceed with the roll. I guess it's just personal preference.

You're correct that you should take care of your partners in training. They should also take of themselves as well though. It's a two way process.

So in the scenario described by the OP, he probably should not have pulled his partner if his knees were in an awkward position. Likewise, his partner should also be less worried about complaining and more worried about not putting himself in such a dangerous position in the first place.

It's like when I sweep people over my head. If they stick their head out stupidly, I will not sweep them hard onto their face and hurt their neck. I will ease up and take it to the side instead for safety. However, I also let them know that they need to be careful with that and should tuck into a roll instead when I have that sweep.

Good safety involves protecting your training partners and teaching them how to protect themselves too.

 

[Mikey Triangles]

Let's talk about this again when you have a blown ACL. You should always take care of your training partners, and any explosive movement which has a high likelihood of causing serious injuries should not be used in training.

there is no risk of injury if your partner is positioned correctly. You're argument here is completely senseless.

 

[El Beebo]

You're correct that you should take care of your partners in training. They should also take of themselves as well though. It's a two way process.

So in the scenario described by the OP, he probably should not have pulled his partner if his knees were in an awkward position. Likewise, his partner should also be less worried about complaining and more worried about not putting himself in such a dangerous position in the first place.

It's like when I sweep people over my head. If they stick their head out stupidly, I will not sweep them hard onto their face and hurt their neck. I will ease up and take it to the side instead for safety. However, I also let them know that they need to be careful with that and should tuck into a roll instead when I have that sweep.

Good safety involves protecting your training partners and teaching them how to protect themselves too.

Completely agreed. Keeping yourself safe is just as important as keeping your partner safe.

 

[879lexus]

there is no risk of injury if your partner is positioned correctly. You're argument here is completely senseless.

Mr Triangles, 'positioned correctly'.......when you are free rolling, who is always in a perfect position? I've seen some really strange positions when guys are rolling ( the strangest at my school was a standing 69, the guy stood up and lifted the other guy upside down from his hips)......

 

[Belatucadros]

I still can't see how an ACL injury would be possible. Maybe I'm just not that flexible. My quads would tear and my ankles would pop far before my ACL was in danger

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I personally think it can be very dangerous.

also, when we start from knees, I'm always afraid to be bull-rushed and fuck up my knee backwards.