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Social Public Schools Continuing to Fail...

People are ignoring the fact that America is now more diverse. Black and Hispanic kids do way worse than whites who do worse than Asian students.

I bet if you break it down, whites are scoring about the same. Asians are scoring about the same. Hispanics are doing about the same. Blacks are scoring about the same.

If you have more people who do bad in schools, it will bring down the overall average.
 
Funding is defintely not the issue. Its massive mismanagement.

HISD (Houston) spends over $10.5k per student per year. And was so mismanaged it was near the bottom of the state in performance. The State of Texas had to step in and take over last year.
CCISD (Clear Lake/League City) spends $9K per student and has some of the best schools in the State. EDIT - LOL at California spending that much and still being a dumpster fire) VOTE BLUE!! haha... Keep raising taxes!! That'll do it.

Yet, the people in Houston continue to vote in the same party candidates year after year... lol. Until voting patterns change, nothing will change.

I would hardly say voting republican gets you better schools. These states have the best public school systems:

Massachusetts
Connecticut
New Jersey
Virginia
New Hampshire
Maryland
Delaware
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Vermont
Rhode Island
Minnesota
Maine
New York
Illinois

On the other hand, these states have the worst schools:

New Mexico
Louisiana
Arizona
Alaska
Alabama
Oklahoma
Mississippi
West Virginia
South Carolina
Oregon
California
Hawaii
Nevada
Arkansas
Idaho
Missouri

Republican led states are more likely to be towards the bottom. I'd also add that though California may be towards the bottom of the list, they have the best university system in the world. Certainly this contributes to the robust economy in California which is the envy of the rest of the nation.
 
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That's always going to be a factor, schools can only compensate for bad households to a certain extent. I remember reading about a study that looked into education initiatives in Sub-Saharan Africa to see which were the most effective. They looked at things like classroom size, qualifications ofteachers, and access to technology and in the end the most important intervention for bringing up grades was providing access to de-worming tablets; the kids were getting sick so often due to a lack of access to clean water that they were missing enough days in school for it to seriously affect their grades.

I doubt there's any kids in the US that need de-worming tablets but there could be some other core material need that isn't being net in the home that hurts grades but is out of the reach of education policy. It could be that addressing something seemingly unrelated like the housing crisis or improving access to preventative care would increase performance for low income students more than any education related initiative would.
It's interesting how charter and magnet schools are always appearing and stealing the small percentage of good students (and athletes) from poor communities. After those students are gone, what are the underperforming schools left with? It just creates a huge divide among public education.
 
I would hardly say voting republican gets you better schools. These states have the best public school systems:

Massachusetts
Connecticut
New Jersey
Virginia
New Hampshire
Maryland
Delaware
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Vermont
Rhode Island
Minnesota
Maine
New York
Illinois

On the other hand, these states have the worst schools:

New Mexico
Louisiana
Arizona
Alaska
Alabama
Oklahoma
Mississippi
West Virginia
South Carolina
Oregon
California
Hawaii
Nevada
Arkansas
Idaho
Missouri

Republican led states are more likely to be towards the bottom. I'd also add that though California may be towards the bottom of the list, they have the best university system in the world. Certainly this contributes to the robust economy in California which is the envy of the rest of the nation.

you just compared the whitest states to the states with most black or Hispanic residents
 
How is that relevant?

It is literally the most relevant thing in the thread. No matter how much money you spend, the results always show the same. Asians do best in schools, whites 2nd, hispanics 3rd, African Americans last

The amount of money or the political party in charge of the education system never matters. The results always show the same exact order of ethnic background.
 
People are ignoring the fact that America is now more diverse. Black and Hispanic kids do way worse than whites who do worse than Asian students.

I bet if you break it down, whites are scoring about the same. Asians are scoring about the same. Hispanics are doing about the same. Blacks are scoring about the same.

If you have more people who do bad in schools, it will bring down the overall average.

Oof. Although there’s a lot more to that, the general trend would likely play out that way. That said, historically Black (in regards to the US) schools likely have seen aptitude falls equal to the national average, so something is actually happening there to the populations, not just with the populations.

Also worth noting that your neighbour here in Canada has been seeing similar trends, and though a percentage of our population would also love to blame our Right party, that doesn’t play out as our politics is nationally usually controlled by the center left and provincial education is a pretty wide range despite fairly standard results.


There’s very likely a variety of easily identifiable causes inside any given classroom, but there’s probably an over-arching cause as well.

Some examples from areas I’ve lived in the last ten years that have been widely reported would be:

Mainstreaming. It was decided that removing special needs children from genera classrooms was detrimental to the developement of that minority of students, and so efforts are towards keeping them in regular classes. However, this would require a drastic increase in minders for those students (whatever their specific job title) which is more difficult. The end result has been a significant increase in violence towards teachers and teachers on temporary leave for such, and so a significant increase in classroom disruption for other students, having an overall negative effect on those students performance.

Grade Pushing. This one’s simple, it’s nearly impossible to actually fail, which means there’s no requirement to achieve aptitude before being progressed. If a student has failed to comprehend simpler courses, they will do worse the next year with more advanced courses, which they will fail, and be pushed up again. This is not apparent on stats like Graduation Rate, but is apparent on imposes standardized tests.

No Removal of Problem Students. Similar to the first point, if students are a distuption and negatively impact their classmates, their remaining then has a greater effect. They are not removed because their removal has a negative effect on their achievement (at least in terms of graduation, not necessarily in competence, as in the second point). This is exacerbated as, whatever cause is argued, these students are disproportionately whatever the worst performing racial demographic your area has.

No Advancement of Gifted Students. The argument here was that having good students in class helps bring up poor students, removing them hurts the class generally. This does not seem to be the reality. Gifted students will remove themselves when the opportunity arises (usually in Secondary school when they can select more advanced classes), even if they are prevented from doing so in Elementary school, but the dynamics of the classroom seem more tilted towards removal of disruptive/negative students for importance rather than retention of high achievers.


An example of of the over-arching causes would be:

Refusal to move away from faulty teaching theory of the 60’s and 70’s, which is based on ideological positions much more than scientific knowledge, so much so that those theories have even crossed from literacy to mathematics.
 
Two quick points:

Most good teachers don't want to be promoted. They want to keep doing what they are doing. They don't want to be moved on to administrative jobs or...well... whatever new positions are being created at the district office. (And the majority of these new positions are being filled with people that don't actually interact with kids).
Good teachers do want raises and want to feel secure in their jobs. Currently most school districts there's a seniority system whereby the last teachers to get hired are the first ones fired regardless of performance. Teacher's unions defend this even though there's no reason to believe that it retains good teachers and effective reforms tend to address this detail.
In regards to the anti-worm tablets, we need to ensure the free/reduced meal programs have a bit more nutrition than skim milk and corn dogs. And make these plans available for all.
The deworming tablet thing is relevant in the context of very poor countries with poor access to clean drinking water. I'm not against investing in free lunch and making sure its nutritious but I don't think it would make much of a difference in education outcomes.
It's interesting how charter and magnet schools are always appearing and stealing the small percentage of good students (and athletes) from poor communities. After those students are gone, what are the underperforming schools left with? It just creates a huge divide among public education.
I'm not entirely against charter and magnet schools but that effect has to be considered and weighed against the opportunity cost of investing in public school reforms.
you just compared the whitest states to the states with most black or Hispanic residents
New York is only 52% white which is proportionally lower than Mississippi(58%), Arkansas(75%), Alaska(66%), Alabama(67%), Oregon(82%), South Carolina(66%), West Virginia(92%), Oklahoma(74%), Louisiana(61%), New Mexico(70%), Idaho(88%), Missouri(81%), Nevada(62%), Arizona(82%), and California(71%). The only state in the bottom list with a proportionally lower white population is Hawaii which has one of the lowest black populations and is ~45% Pacific Islander.
How is that relevant?
Not only is it not relevant, its not even true. But people like him want to blame minorities for poor education outcomes because it feds into certain racial narratives where the presence of non-whites is the problem.
 
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you just compared the whitest states to the states with most black or Hispanic residents
No he didn’t. The best schools list have 6 states with higher than the national average % of black residents. While the worst schools only have 5 states with a higher than average % of black residents.
 
No he didn’t. The best schools list have 6 states with higher than the national average % of black residents. While the worst schools only have 5 states with a higher than average % of black residents.

map-each-states-average-iq.png


SAT score by state

SAT-Scores-by-State.png
 
The whitest states have the highest SAT scores, which correlate to normal school testing
Well first of all the diagram you posted indicated IQs not SAT scores. But as previously pointed out, many of the higher IQ states have less of a % of whites than the national avg. So your whole premise is incorrect.
 
I think you are on to something. I think at this point investing in public education is a waste of money. I think they should scrap the whole system and go with homeschooling.
We already ran the experiment of dumping more money into it, and surprise, they just pass it out to their friends and have a bunch of non-teaching faculty collecting huge salaries, and results get worse because they spent all their money talking about the "school to prison pipeline" while some 28 year old 10th grader beats the bejesus out of some $47k teacher for taking away their Nintendo switch.
 
Well first of all the diagram you posted indicated IQs not SAT scores. But as previously pointed out, many of the higher IQ states have less of a % of whites than the national avg. So your whole premise is incorrect.
Which ones? I'm not seeing any in the top 10 that are less than 59% white.
 
We already ran the experiment of dumping more money into it, and surprise, they just pass it out to their friends and have a bunch of non-teaching faculty collecting huge salaries, and results get worse because they spent all their money talking about the "school to prison pipeline" while some 28 year old 10th grader beats the bejesus out of some $47k teacher for taking away their Nintendo switch.
<bball2>
 
Constant attacks on schools and teachers while pillaging public education budget will do that.

You want a successful middle class?
  1. Pay teachers
  2. Hire more qualified teachers
  3. Make intervention easier
  4. Improve school buildings
  5. Add ease of access to "higher" end programs
  6. Add more schools
None of this is easily accomplished but the results are worth it. WI is a great example. Governor Walker cut education HARD. The result? Teachers left the state. The state then had to issue emergency teaching licenses to individuals who weren't certified. Fucking shitshow but that's republican policies for you
Yep this is the culmination of decades of Republican action. But it’s more fun to blame it on identity politics I guess.
 
cant blame public schools when government/councils dont care about education, just indoctrination or whatever is going to help them get votes from mummy and daddy, and then the kids in the future because they dont let them learn
 
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