Prometheus is underappreciated.

[BisexualMMA]

I re-watched Alien and Aliens the other day and a thought just occurred to me. Prometheus takes place in 2093, at which time the Xenomorphs do not exist. Covenant is about ten years later (let's say 2103), and the original Alien in 2122.

The derelict ship in the original Alien had possibly thousands of Xeno eggs in its cargo hold. And the Space Jockey's body was decayed, almost fossilized and looked to be extremely old. Yet the events of Prometheus and Covenant would suggest this wreck could not have been more than twenty years old.

Has there been any information released that acknowledges, denies, or retcons any of this? It seems like a plot hole to me but I'm not sure.

 

[DIABOLUS]

Yeah that didn't occur to me lol. I was also thinking about the AvP movies (not that they were ever canon) and how it retcons the idea of Predators ritually hunting Xenomorphs on Earth hundreds of years ago. But it's a shit franchise so no real loss there.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Lamberts first idea was to abandon ship. Though the shuttle only housed 1, they attempted to do it with extra air.

Brett saved the cat from being tazered but had to retrieve it to prevent her from signaling the detector. He felt responsible.

She also begged, cried, and pleaded for the facehugger to be brought on the ship (thanks alot, bitch), breaking the protocol Ripley tried to enforce.

Yeah, and he had no problem with doing it alone.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

It was 1979, man. Horror tropes weren't as cliched as they have become, and even if it is obvious that he will die, I still don't mind as long as he doesn't act like a buffoon and take me out of the film entirely.

I mean seriously, did you think Millburn and Fifield were going to survive when they decided to spend the night in the alien tunnel full of corpses? Or was it just as obvious they were going to die.

There was like 2 minutes of screentime to the scene of him searching for the cat, all by himself, before the alien is shown above him.

No one that isn't retarded thought he'd find the cat and join the crew.

 

[BisexualMMA]

There was like 2 minutes of screentime to the scene of him searching for the cat, all by himself, before the alien is shown above him.

No one that isn't retarded thought he'd find the cat and join the crew.

I think you're missing my point, which is that characters acting unreasonably or unrealistically is the far greater sin, and far worse writing.

There's nothing wrong with looking for a cat for two minutes. But the actions of the "scientist" in Prometheus aren't even consistent with his own previous actions, let alone a non-idiotic person. Minutes after freaking out about harmless centuries-old corpses, he wants to play with an aggressive alien snake. Even setting aside that this is beyond stupid by the standards of Lennie from Of Mice and Men, much less a scientist, it isn't even consistent with the guy who ran from motionless bodies a few scenes earlier.

They're both horror movies. We already know that the majority of the cast will die. I don't know why you'd focus so much on Brett's death being telegraphed in the 1970s, and think that's on a scale with interplanetary scientists acting like special needs students. "85" from Alien 3 wasn't even that dumb.

 

[Mike]

Lol at the idea that the movie has "minor plot issues" Just about everyone in the movie acts like a complete fucking retard. These people made dumber decisions than teenagers in a slasher flick.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I think you're missing my point, which is that characters acting unreasonably or unrealistically is the far greater sin, and far worse writing.

There's nothing wrong with looking for a cat for two minutes. But the actions of the "scientist" in Prometheus aren't even consistent with his own previous actions, let alone a non-idiotic person. Minutes after freaking out about harmless centuries-old corpses, he wants to play with an aggressive alien snake. Even setting aside that this is beyond stupid by the standards of Lennie from Of Mice and Men, much less a scientist, it isn't even consistent with the guy who ran from motionless bodies a few scenes earlier.

They're both horror movies. We already know that the majority of the cast will die. I don't know why you'd focus so much on Brett's death being telegraphed in the 1970s, and think that's on a scale with interplanetary scientists acting like special needs students. "85" from Alien 3 wasn't even that dumb.

You've started to echo what I said in an earlier post you quoted...

"Name a horror movie in which all the characters are geniuses.

The original cast of Alien weren't on Einstein's level of intellect.

Seriously, in this genre of movie, it's pretty much a requirement for the majority of the characters to be borderline retarded."

Yes, the scientists in Prometheus are stupid. Or rather, the screenwriter didn't consult any actual scientists. I can see your point on that, though its pure subjective opinion as to were the line between dumb characters and dumb writing.

Most scientists are book smart and spend their professional lives in laboratories. They don't develop street smarts, survival instincts, or even common sense... and knowing that helps explain the idiotic actions of characters in Prometheus.

Is this outright said? No. But they went on a scientific expedition to an alien planet without a single GUN, but they did bring a flamethrower, and used it only once.... very smart scientists indeed.

 

[Adamant]

Prometheus was shit.

 

[BisexualMMA]

You've started to echo what I said in an earlier post you quoted...

"Name a horror movie in which all the characters are geniuses.

The original cast of Alien weren't on Einstein's level of intellect.

Seriously, in this genre of movie, it's pretty much a requirement for the majority of the characters to be borderline retarded."

Yes, the scientists in Prometheus are stupid. Or rather, the screenwriter didn't consult any actual scientists. I can see your point on that, though its pure subjective opinion as to were the line between dumb characters and dumb writing.

Most scientists are book smart and spend their professional lives in laboratories. They don't develop street smarts, survival instincts, or even common sense... and knowing that helps explain the idiotic actions of characters in Prometheus.

Is this outright said? No. But they went on a scientific expedition to an alien planet without a single GUN, but they did bring a flamethrower, and used it only once.... very smart scientists indeed.

If they wanted these scientist characters to be "book smart but..." (functionally retarded) then they at least had to establish this before the adventure begins as a character trait. Otherwise, the natural assumption is that they are capable and on par with NASA exobiologists.

It's a somewhat poorly written movie with poorly written characters.

I don't believe at all that it's a requirement that horror movies must have characters acting stupid. But it's even worse to have scientists acting stupid. Alien had space truckers and Aliens had cocky soldiers, and nobody really acted stupid or in ways that weren't justified by their character or circumstances. Like Lambert, Gorman was frozen by fear, and that was intelligently set up in advance by establishing his inexperience.

For Gorman to act "stupidly" as a soldier, there needed to be a reason established, and it was.

No scientist in Prometheus had any such behavior set up or foreshadowed. They just got off the ship and started acting like drunk teenagers.

The Terminator is arguably a horror, among other things, and neither Reese nor Sarah acted like idiots. Sarah made a dumb mistake calling her mother and giving away her position, but her motivations were understandable.

Why exactly did scientist guy want to pet a snake? Other than it being the easiest way for Lindelof to get the snake inside his space suit? I mean, at least grab a fossilized Engineer femur and poke at it from a distance or something. The characters shouldn't be acting so silly that I'm actually cheering for "black goo." From the moment that guy started moving toward the snake, I was thinking, "okay, let's just get this kill over with." I was already annoyed by the character, which isn't really a good thing. Burke in Aliens was despicable, not annoying.

In fact, many of the characters were written as empty and/or annoying. Shaw's husband...why was he such an asshole to David? It just made him alienating and made me not care when he died. Charlize Theron? Literally the purpose of her character was to make the audience wonder whether she was an android or not. But it seems the question was never asked in the writing room: who gives a shit? Who cares whether Charlize Theron is an android or not if it doesn't tie into anything, either emotionally or in terms of the plot? It's just noise.

The teenagers in It Follows didn't act like complete idiots.

I know it's quite common for "cannon fodder" characters in slasher movies to author their own demise by making dumb choices, but this was a film from Ridley Scott, the guy who 30+ years earlier had given us the definitive alien slasher movie without characters being retards. Why start now? He knew better. The writing was just lazy and they didn't bother to tighten it up because they figured the visuals would drug the audience into a stupor.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

If they wanted these scientist characters to be "book smart but..." (functionally retarded) then they at least had to establish this before the adventure begins as a character trait. Otherwise, the natural assumption is that they are capable and on par with NASA exobiologists.

Depends on your experience or knowledge of scientists.

Most people think that CSI scientists are also detectives that question suspects, thanks to that stupid show and its spinoffs. Knowledgable people are aware they're basically rab rats.

It's a somewhat poorly written movie with poorly written characters.

Any movie can be knit-picked to death.

I don't believe at all that it's a requirement that horror movies must have characters acting stupid. But it's even worse to have scientists acting stupid. Alien had space truckers and Aliens had cocky soldiers, and nobody really acted stupid or in ways that weren't justified by their character or circumstances. Like Lambert, Gorman was frozen by fear, and that was intelligently set up in advance by establishing his inexperience.

And he was an officer.

For Gorman to act "stupidly" as a soldier, there needed to be a reason established, and it was.

Wasn't exactly stupidity, more like cowardice. He froze when his team was attacked, and lead to at least a few of their deaths.

But, he kinda has a redemptive moment when he went back for Vasquez.

No scientist in Prometheus had any such behavior set up or foreshadowed. They just got off the ship and started acting like drunk teenagers.

In fact, we barely know anything about them at all, other than that cute flirty moment in the cafeteria.

Overall, I agree.

But the complaint seems shallow, like people are just looking for reasons to hate the movie because the lack of Xenomorphs.

The Terminator is arguably a horror, among other things, and neither Reese nor Sarah acted like idiots. Sarah made a dumb mistake calling her mother and giving away her position, but her motivations were understandable.

Since there were few characters, they were able to develop them more.

Why exactly did scientist guy want to pet a snake? Other than it being the easiest way for Lindelof to get the snake inside his space suit? I mean, at least grab a fossilized Engineer femur and poke at it from a distance or something. The characters shouldn't be acting so silly that I'm actually cheering for "black goo." From the moment that guy started moving toward the snake, I was thinking, "okay, let's just get this kill over with." I was already annoyed by the character, which isn't really a good thing.

In Alien, why did that one guy see the egg open and stick his head right over it?

Gotta realize that these characters have no clue the jeopardy they're in until it's too late.

And we're sitting in the movie theaters thinking 'That stupid fuck! I'd totally survive this movie if I was in it!'

Burke in Aliens was despicable, not annoying.

Agreed.

Notice I'm never complaining about any of the characters in Aliens?

They weren't stupid, just battle casualties.

In fact, many of the characters were written as empty and/or annoying. Shaw's husband...why was he such an asshole to David?

Assholes are assholes, especially to those they can shit all over.

It just made him alienating and made me not care when he died.

Yeah, but, so we REALLY care each and every time someone dies in a horror movie?

Charlize Theron? Literally the purpose of her character was to make the audience wonder whether she was an android or not. But it seems the question was never asked in the writing room: who gives a shit? Who cares whether Charlize Theron is an android or not if it doesn't tie into anything, either emotionally or in terms of the plot? It's just noise.

100% agree.

"My room. 15 minutes."

Da Faq was the point of all of that?

The teenagers in It Follows didn't act like complete idiots.

Haven't seen that. I might check it out.

I know it's quite common for "cannon fodder" characters in slasher movies to author their own demise by making dumb choices, but this was a film from Ridley Scott, the guy who 30+ years earlier had given us the definitive alien slasher movie without characters being retards.

He also directed Exodus.

And Robin Hood, starring Maximus.

Why start now? He knew better. The writing was just lazy and they didn't bother to tighten it up because they figured the visuals would drug the audience into a stupor.

But did it really ruin the experience?

I get it's a complaint, but there's not been any movies with equally dumb characters that get killed off, that you didn't criticise THAT movie for because everything else about it was great?

I mean think of Neil deGrasse Tyson, if he was in an Alien movie, he's guaranteed to be royally fucked.

 

[BisexualMMA]

But the complaint seems shallow, like people are just looking for reasons to hate the movie because the lack of Xenomorphs.

I don't speak for anyone else, but the lack of xenomorphs didn't bother me at all. I don't even consider it a minor complaint.

 

[BisexualMMA]

But did it really ruin the experience?

I get it's a complaint, but there's not been any movies with equally dumb characters that get killed off, that you didn't criticise THAT movie for because everything else about it was great?

There may have been such a movie, but I can't think of one offhand. Generally, movies that I like have well-written characters.

 

[VulcanNervPinch]

Prometheus was definitely badass

 

[DoomPatrol]

How hard is it? About as hard as it is for you to just enjoy a film in spite of tiny flaws, so it seems.

I remember back then being russled by the scientist petting the deadly vagina snake; but that was only AFTER the film ended.

At the time I was utterly blown away by it attacking/penetrating their masks - truly terrifying.

As soon as a biologist took off his gear to play fuck fuck games with an unknown beast, I lost it. That was literally the last straw for me. I'm not even a biologist and I know how fucking stupid that is. No biologist on the planet would behave like that. No professional on the planet would act like them and it's the only reason the plot moves. It doesn't move independent of the characters retarded actions.

Point is, I know how to enjoy a film in spite of its trivial flaws.

Yay for me right?

But its an overrall trend ive observed, people just need to be smarty pants and pick at films for no good reason.

There is a good reason. It completely ruins the movie when I can't relate to a single character in it because I'm not autistic.

' oh my god she ran in a straight line as opposed to turning right in the heat of the moment THE FILM IS TOTALLY RUINED!

Does that not sound petty and dumb to you?

That just sounds weak minded to me to not just be able to enjoy a film and fixate on minor flaws, disregarding the many positives of a film.

How is it weak minded to have a basic grasp of common sense and understand that real human behavior is nothing like what is exhibited in the movie? All of those mistakes took planning and effort to bring to fruition. It's different than a movie forgetting some basic science or whatever. Those jackasses purposefully went out of their way to spend money and time on scenes that make me want to bash my head in with a rock.

Prometheus sucks cock as a movie. Ridley Scott should be ashamed of that filth trash movie. Covenant isn't going to be any better. Every person I've seen who has seen it already has verified that. I'll just keep pretending the series goes Alien and Aliens and forget they made those last shit movies.

 

[Turtlejuice]

Promethius was not a terrible film, but it was certainly not a good one. It was a good concept, done badly. Poor characters, and a poor story written around what was a good idea.

 

[DoomPatrol]

Promethius was not a terrible film, but it was certainly not a good one. It was a good concept, done badly. Poor characters, and a poor story written around what was a good idea.

It was a beautiful concept that I would have loved to see a dozen movies on. It's just that Ridley Scott apparently started smoking crack in his free time and did whatever bullshit we saw.

 

[shinobimusashi]

I liked it. Surprised to see so many trashing on it, I thought it was a better space/sci-fi movie that all of the big ones that came out recently, The Martian, Interstellar, Passengers, The Arrival, etc.

 

[STEVEN SEAGOLD]

Covenant is bombing HARD.

Business for Alien: Covenant was down in comparison to Prometheus in seven major international markets, including the U.K. (-38.85%), France (-38.4%), Australia (-79.4%), Mexico (-24.9%), Spain (-71.63%), Brazil (-52.47%), and Italy (-66.68%).

 

[STEVEN SEAGOLD]

Apparently watching the fan cut of this film improves it dramatically.

 

[HereticBD]

I mean seriously, did you think Millburn and Fifield were going to survive when they decided to spend the night in the alien tunnel full of corpses? Or was it just as obvious they were going to die.

Them staying didn't bother me, so much as how they managed to get lost, and the captain's nonchalant attitude about it.

"Lost, huh? Wellll, we're getting a little sleepy over here. Just stay put. We'll come get you in the morning."