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Pro Wrestling History Thread

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Oh, I agree that they made Hansen into even more of a monster with his submission win. They totally killed Martel's heat with that booking.

I agree that he wasn't enough of a draw to be AWA World Champ, but by having him squashed by Hansen, his future possible title run was tossed under the bus.

Not unlike the Road Warriors destroying Tommy Rich in Georgia...
 
And that comes from a huge Stan Hansen and Road Warriors fan.

You can build a monster without destroying your top face in the process.

There could have been a lot of angles with Martel fighting back against Hansen to regain some heat. There could have been a lot of great angles with Rich getting different partners against the Road Warriors, too
 
I am a big fan of Rick Martel. His heel work as the model was great stuff.
I read an interview at slam wrestling that Martel gave and he said he wanted out as champion and was glad when he lost. He hated the schedule and travel and wanted to be in Quebec with his wife.
The booking probably should have been the ref stopping the match instead of the submission but if you watch the match they played up the back being worked on the whole match. Martel held on for several minutes and it was played out like Martel could have broken the hold if not for Hansen cheating by using the turnbuckle for an unfair advantage. All this while the ref was oblivious to Hansen cheating of course. But then again Hansen wasn't using the ropes, he was using the turnbuckle for leverage. Not sure about the rules on that one (like they matter.)
One thing about that interview I remember is that he wasn't fond of Jumbo Tsuruta as a worker.
 
flowwiththego said:
I am a big fan of Rick Martel. His heel work as the model was great stuff.
I read an interview at slam wrestling that Martel gave and he said he wanted out as champion and was glad when he lost. He hated the schedule and travel and wanted to be in Quebec with his wife.
The booking probably should have been the ref stopping the match instead of the submission but if you watch the match they played up the back being worked on the whole match. Martel held on for several minutes and it was played out like Martel could have broken the hold if not for Hansen cheating by using the turnbuckle for an unfair advantage. All this while the ref was oblivious to Hansen cheating of course. But then again Hansen wasn't using the ropes, he was using the turnbuckle for leverage. Not sure about the rules on that one (like they matter.)
One thing about that interview I remember is that he wasn't fond of Jumbo Tsuruta as a worker.
Click to expand...

Do you remember why that was?

I saw an interview with Rick not too long ago where he was talking about "The Model" gimmick and said it was great & he really enjoyed it. Rick said he had been a babyface for like 15 years and was tired of that, and he wanted to be a heel because his brother (Michel "Mad Dog" Martel) was a heel, and he had grown up with & traveled around with heels.
 
DannyBoy1985 said:
Do you remember why that was?

I saw an interview with Rick not too long ago where he was talking about "The Model" gimmick and said it was great & he really enjoyed it. Rick said he had been a babyface for like 15 years and was tired of that, and he wanted to be a heel because his brother (Michel "Mad Dog" Martel) was a heel, and he had grown up with & traveled around with heels.
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I've seen Rick's RF shoot and he said he had a hard time communicating with Jumbo. Also despite the fact that Jumbo was trained here in the U.S. by the Funks by 1984 he was basically a strong style guy and they just didn't mesh together in the ring. Martel didn't feel there was psychology he could work with from Jumbo and he didn't feel Jumbo tried to adapt to him.
 
BrooklynBomber said:
I've seen Rick's RF shoot and he said he had a hard time communicating with Jumbo. Also despite the fact that Jumbo was trained here in the U.S. by the Funks by 1984 he was basically a strong style guy and they just didn't mesh together in the ring. Martel didn't feel there was psychology he could work with from Jumbo and he didn't feel Jumbo tried to adapt to him.
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Ah ok, thanks for the info Bomber.
 
BrooklynBomber said:
I've seen Rick's RF shoot and he said he had a hard time communicating with Jumbo. Also despite the fact that Jumbo was trained here in the U.S. by the Funks by 1984 he was basically a strong style guy and they just didn't mesh together in the ring. Martel didn't feel there was psychology he could work with from Jumbo and he didn't feel Jumbo tried to adapt to him.
Click to expand...

yep, thats it.
 
Upon further research, Martel had only 3 dates with the AWA after he dropped the title. he wrestles in a local Quebec territory (wrestled some AWA talent) right after the loss. Signed with the WWF and wrestled in Japan.
Maybe putting Hansen over strong was the right thing to do.

American Wrestling Association:
12/25 St. Paul, MN beat Stan Hansen by DQ
12/29 E. Rutherford, NJ lost to Stan Hansen, *Lost the AWA World title

1986
01/16 Winnipeg, MB beat Stan Hansen
International Wrestling:
01/27 Montreal, QC w/. Dino Bravo, beat Jimmy Garvin & Sheik Ali
American Wrestling Association:
01/30 San Francisco, CA vs. Jimmy Garvin
International Wrestling:
03/06 Montreal, QC beat Sheik Ali by CO
03/14 Montreal, QC w/. Dino Bravo, beat Sheik Ali & Samu
03/25 Sherbrooke, QC vs. Dino Bravo
03/30 Montreal, QC beat Sheik Ali
03/31 Quebec City, QC beat Sheik Ali
03/31 Quebec City, QC Won a Battle royal
04/09 Niagara Falls, ?? beat Boris Zhukov
04/14 Montreal, QC w/. Dino Bravo, beat Sheik Ali & Samu
American Wrestling Association:
04/20 Minneapolis, MN double CO vs. Harley Race
International Wrestling:
04/28 Montreal, QC w/. Austin Idol, beat Abdullah the Butcher & Kamala
05/12 Montreal, QC beat Stan Hansen (AWA World)
05/13 Quebec City, QC beat Michael Hayes
05/19 Montreal, QC w/. Austin Idol, beat Bill & Scott Irwin
06/22 Montreal, QC lost to Steve Strong by DQ
07/22 Quebec City, QC lost to Ric Flair (NWA World)
08/01 Val D'Or, QC w/. Tom Zenk & Dan Kroffat, beat Steve Strong, Bill & Scott Irwin by DQ
08/11 Montreal, QC beat Steve Strong B Match stopped due to excessive bleeding
08/12 Quebec City, QC beat Steve Strong
08/31 Montreal, QC w/. Alofa, beat Sheik Ali & Bob Della Serra
09/08 Montreal, QC w/. Dino Bravo, beat Sheik Ali & Bob Della Serra
09/22 Montreal, QC w/. Tom Zenk & Dan Kroffat, lost to Steve Strong, Samu, & Richard Charland
10/13 Montreal, QC w/. Tom Zenk & Dan Kroffat, beat Sheik Ali, Hercules Ayala, & Richard Charland
World Wrestling Federation:
11/19 South Bend, IN w/. Tom Zenk, beat Jimmy Jack Funk & Mike Sharpe
All Japan Pro Wrestling:
11/22 Tokyo, Japan w/. Zenk, lost to Dory Jr. & Terry Funk
11/23 Tokyo, Japan w/. Zenk, no contest vs. Ted DiBiase & Stan Hansen
11/24 Matsumoto, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Shinichi Takano & Kuniaki Kobiahi
11/25 Sanjoh, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Haru Sonoda & Masa Fuchi
11/26 Akita,, Japan w/. Zenk, lost to Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu
11/27 Hakodate, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Rusher Kimura & Goro Tsurumi
11/28 Sapporo, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Masa Fuchi & Takashi Ishikawa
11/29 Misawa, Japan w/. Zenk, lost to Ted DiBiase & Stan Hansen
12/01 Kasugai, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Tiger Mask (Misawa) & Mighty Inoue
12/02 Fukui, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Samson Fuyuki & Motoshi Okuma
12/03 Kobe, Japan lost to Riki Choshu
12/04 Fukuoka, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Masa Fuchi & Toshiaki Kawada
12/05 Kumamoto, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Terry Gordy & Killer Khan by DQ
12/06 Takamatsu, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Tiger Mask & Samson Fuyuki
12/08 Hiroshima, Japan w/. Zenk, double count out vs. Yoshiaki Yatsu & Riki Choshu
12/09 Hamamatsu, Japan beat Animal Hamiguchi
12/11 Mito, Japan w/. Zenk, double count out vs. Shohei Baba & Tiger Mask
12/12 Tokyo, Japan w/. Zenk, lost to Shohei Baba & Hiroshi Wajima

1987
World Wrestling Federation:
01/05 East Rutherford, NJ w/. Zenk, double DQ vs. Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
01/15 San Diego, CA w/. Zenk, beat Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
01/18 Miami, FL w/. Zenk, beat Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
01/19 New York, NY w/. Zenk, beat Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
01/21 Victoria, BC w/. Zenk, beat Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
01/22 Vancouver, BC w/. Zenk, beat Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
01/24 Los Angeles, CA w/. Zenk, beat Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
02/01 Toronto, ON w/. Zenk, beat Nicolai Volkoff & Iron Sheik
02/07 Los Angeles, CA w/. Zenk, beat Nicolai Volkoff & Iron Sheik
02/10 Portland, OR w/. Zenk, drew Ax & Smash
02/11 Oakland, CA w/. Zenk, beat Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart (non-title)
02/13 Tacoma, WA w/. Zenk, Jim Brunzell & Brian Blair, beat Bret
 
flowwiththego said:
Upon further research, Martel had only 3 dates with the AWA after he dropped the title. he wrestles in a local Quebec territory (wrestled some AWA talent) right after the loss. Signed with the WWF and wrestled in Japan.
Maybe putting Hansen over strong was the right thing to do.

American Wrestling Association:
12/25 St. Paul, MN beat Stan Hansen by DQ
12/29 E. Rutherford, NJ lost to Stan Hansen, *Lost the AWA World title

1986
01/16 Winnipeg, MB beat Stan Hansen
International Wrestling:
01/27 Montreal, QC w/. Dino Bravo, beat Jimmy Garvin & Sheik Ali
American Wrestling Association:
01/30 San Francisco, CA vs. Jimmy Garvin
International Wrestling:
03/06 Montreal, QC beat Sheik Ali by CO
03/14 Montreal, QC w/. Dino Bravo, beat Sheik Ali & Samu
03/25 Sherbrooke, QC vs. Dino Bravo
03/30 Montreal, QC beat Sheik Ali
03/31 Quebec City, QC beat Sheik Ali
03/31 Quebec City, QC Won a Battle royal
04/09 Niagara Falls, ?? beat Boris Zhukov
04/14 Montreal, QC w/. Dino Bravo, beat Sheik Ali & Samu
American Wrestling Association:
04/20 Minneapolis, MN double CO vs. Harley Race
International Wrestling:
04/28 Montreal, QC w/. Austin Idol, beat Abdullah the Butcher & Kamala
05/12 Montreal, QC beat Stan Hansen (AWA World)
05/13 Quebec City, QC beat Michael Hayes
05/19 Montreal, QC w/. Austin Idol, beat Bill & Scott Irwin
06/22 Montreal, QC lost to Steve Strong by DQ
07/22 Quebec City, QC lost to Ric Flair (NWA World)
08/01 Val D'Or, QC w/. Tom Zenk & Dan Kroffat, beat Steve Strong, Bill & Scott Irwin by DQ
08/11 Montreal, QC beat Steve Strong B Match stopped due to excessive bleeding
08/12 Quebec City, QC beat Steve Strong
08/31 Montreal, QC w/. Alofa, beat Sheik Ali & Bob Della Serra
09/08 Montreal, QC w/. Dino Bravo, beat Sheik Ali & Bob Della Serra
09/22 Montreal, QC w/. Tom Zenk & Dan Kroffat, lost to Steve Strong, Samu, & Richard Charland
10/13 Montreal, QC w/. Tom Zenk & Dan Kroffat, beat Sheik Ali, Hercules Ayala, & Richard Charland
World Wrestling Federation:
11/19 South Bend, IN w/. Tom Zenk, beat Jimmy Jack Funk & Mike Sharpe
All Japan Pro Wrestling:
11/22 Tokyo, Japan w/. Zenk, lost to Dory Jr. & Terry Funk
11/23 Tokyo, Japan w/. Zenk, no contest vs. Ted DiBiase & Stan Hansen
11/24 Matsumoto, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Shinichi Takano & Kuniaki Kobiahi
11/25 Sanjoh, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Haru Sonoda & Masa Fuchi
11/26 Akita,, Japan w/. Zenk, lost to Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu
11/27 Hakodate, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Rusher Kimura & Goro Tsurumi
11/28 Sapporo, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Masa Fuchi & Takashi Ishikawa
11/29 Misawa, Japan w/. Zenk, lost to Ted DiBiase & Stan Hansen
12/01 Kasugai, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Tiger Mask (Misawa) & Mighty Inoue
12/02 Fukui, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Samson Fuyuki & Motoshi Okuma
12/03 Kobe, Japan lost to Riki Choshu
12/04 Fukuoka, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Masa Fuchi & Toshiaki Kawada
12/05 Kumamoto, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Terry Gordy & Killer Khan by DQ
12/06 Takamatsu, Japan w/. Zenk, beat Tiger Mask & Samson Fuyuki
12/08 Hiroshima, Japan w/. Zenk, double count out vs. Yoshiaki Yatsu & Riki Choshu
12/09 Hamamatsu, Japan beat Animal Hamiguchi
12/11 Mito, Japan w/. Zenk, double count out vs. Shohei Baba & Tiger Mask
12/12 Tokyo, Japan w/. Zenk, lost to Shohei Baba & Hiroshi Wajima

1987
World Wrestling Federation:
01/05 East Rutherford, NJ w/. Zenk, double DQ vs. Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
01/15 San Diego, CA w/. Zenk, beat Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
01/18 Miami, FL w/. Zenk, beat Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
01/19 New York, NY w/. Zenk, beat Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
01/21 Victoria, BC w/. Zenk, beat Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
01/22 Vancouver, BC w/. Zenk, beat Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
01/24 Los Angeles, CA w/. Zenk, beat Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine
02/01 Toronto, ON w/. Zenk, beat Nicolai Volkoff & Iron Sheik
02/07 Los Angeles, CA w/. Zenk, beat Nicolai Volkoff & Iron Sheik
02/10 Portland, OR w/. Zenk, drew Ax & Smash
02/11 Oakland, CA w/. Zenk, beat Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart (non-title)
02/13 Tacoma, WA w/. Zenk, Jim Brunzell & Brian Blair, beat Bret
Click to expand...

You make an interesting & valid point, flow. How the loss to Stan Hansen went down may have hurt Rick Martel in the AWA fans eyes, but being that he was on his way out, never to return to the AWA after his final date, perhaps it could've been the right thing to do to put Hansen over the way he did. It didn't really hurt Martel's career in general though, as he did just fine afterwards else where in International Wrestling (a pretty good promotion by the way, run by Gino Brito & Dino Bravo), WWF & AJPW. In retrospect for the AWA though, Verne Gagne may have regretted having had Hansen put over so strongly or putting the AWA title on him period after the problems he ended up having with him. That's neither here nor there as it pertains to Rick Martel though.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlzSPJ2ELoQ&list=FL9KBe0xkD0j1KunRiFBrOuQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video

That link is to a RARE short shoot interview Curt Hennig did in November of 2000. It was partially to promote his PPV match with Dennis Rodman for iGeneration Wrestling, but they discussed a lot of his career and his peers.

He really doesn't speak ill of anyone for the most part, and some funny stuff includes:

- At the time of this interview he's on his way to work out with Bork Laser.
- He refers to Terry Funk as the toughest S.O.B. he ever met besides his father.
- Dynamite Kid was the first guy he ever really had wars with in the ring(Don Owens territory) and he says he thinks Kid respected him for the fact that he had to fight for his life every time and never quit with him.

Its a pretty good interview. They talk about with some people how you can tell over the phone that they're smiling when they talk and Curt's absolutely one of those people as you can hear the happy tone of his voice. I miss him.
 
BrooklynBomber said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlzSPJ2ELoQ&list=FL9KBe0xkD0j1KunRiFBrOuQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video

That link is to a RARE short shoot interview Curt Hennig did in November of 2000. It was partially to promote his PPV match with Dennis Rodman for iGeneration Wrestling, but they discussed a lot of his career and his peers.

He really doesn't speak ill of anyone for the most part, and some funny stuff includes:

- At the time of this interview he's on his way to work out with Bork Laser.
- He refers to Terry Funk as the toughest S.O.B. he ever met besides his father.
- Dynamite Kid was the first guy he ever really had wars with in the ring(Don Owens territory) and he says he thinks Kid respected him for the fact that he had to fight for his life every time and never quit with him.

Its a pretty good interview. They talk about with some people how you can tell over the phone that they're smiling when they talk and Curt's absolutely one of those people as you can hear the happy tone of his voice. I miss him.
Click to expand...

Cool, don't think ive heard that. Thanks for the heads up on it.
 
BrooklynBomber said:
I will say this though for the booking of that match, it absolutely put Stan over as a monster but Rick never caught on with the fans like he was supposed to and they gave up on him when he submitted to Stan. Babyface champs never submitted and when Martel did fans turned on him.

I love Martel and he's absolutely one of my all time favorites but he just wasn't the right guy at that time. They tried using Jimmy Garvin and Michael Hayes who were loaded with charisma to get people into him more but it just didn't click.
Click to expand...

When I was a kid and the only exposure I had to the AWA was in the Apter mags. I decided Martel was my favorite champ over Hogan and Flair even though I had never seen him wrestle but I was a Road Warriors fan and that made me, in little kid logic, an AWA guy.

Then they jumped and he lost the title (at least I think thats how it went) and he showed up in the WWF. I was a little dissapointed he didnt immediately take on the Hulkster but he did end up teaming with one of my other favorites, Tito Santana in Strike Force. I remember going nuts when they won the titles and then finally giving up on Martel when he turned on Tito
 
Its Me Austin said:
How was Curt Hennig's AWA title reign?
Click to expand...

It wasn't anything too special, but that wasn't Curt's fault really. The AWA was towards the end of it's existence then & by that point WWF had raided it's talent pool just the same as it had done to other territories. Curt mostly had to defend it against older & past it stars like Wahoo McDaniel, Baron Von Raschke, Jerry Blackwell & Greg Gagne or young up & comers who weren't established like Jeff Jarrett, DJ Peterson & Mitch Snow. Then the occasional guy like Tommy Rich & Jerry Lawler (who of course would beat Curt for the title) who were established stars and not too old at that point. To me, when it was all said & done, it wasn't a bad reign and i think Curt did the best he could with what he had, but it was certainly not one of the best AWA World title reigns either.
 
It's kind of crazy in retrospect to think, and realize, that Rick Martel was as big as he was. Not that he didn't deserve it or wasn't right (because he had that good physique blend of speed, athleticism, and strength), but just in the sense you think back and realize that The Model was at one time top of the world in the biz as a baby face. In my memory he was like an A-level mid-carder with the WWF as a face; he would have been top of this list, but was a guy you could sub with Roma, Powers, or Zenk anytime. Not necessarily style-wise (but sort of), but more of character presence as a whole. He really hit his stride, character-wise as a heel IMO.
 
I think Curt's AWA title reign more than anything else is a testament to how good he really was. The talent pool above mentioned that he had to work with was as shallow as a wading pool. No disrespect to the Baron or Wahoo but those were guys ten years past their prime when they were in top programs with Curt. Greg was outstanding as a tag team performer but as a single he just wasn't a viable top guy. DJ wasn't at that top level despite being IMO the guy who somehow slipped through the cracks and shouldn't have before he died.

The fact that Curt was on TV regularly having to have great matches with guys like Mitch fucking Snow of all people really upped his value and made him a guy very high up on the WWF/NWA radar. It showed he was capable of pretty much making any match an entertaining one no matter who he was in with. As Arn Anderson put it you could have Curt Hennig vs. a stack of bricks and get the best match of the night.
 
They sometimes run the old AWA on ESPN classic. I have caught a couple of them but have not figured out what time they run, so I can DVR them.
 
44nutman said:
They sometimes run the old AWA on ESPN classic. I have caught a couple of them but have not figured out what time they run, so I can DVR them.
Click to expand...

They don't have a regular time slot unfortunately. Sometimes on my channel guide it'll say AWA Wrestling and instead they'll run Herb Abrams' UWF.
 
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