Prime RJJ is the GOAT and it's not even close

[Mysterio]

Fundamentally, and by the book? I think absolutely not. He dropped his hands so much especially after throwing a combination, backing out with his hands down. Having that left hand down got him clipped, and knocked out (Glen Johnson). You can only be unorthodox for so long until you get exposed. Same thing happened to Prince Naseem. I do not believe an unorthodox fighter can be called the GOAT. He is one of the greatest, and I grew up in a very pro RJJ household. But often times his disregard for, or not wanting to apply sound technique got him clapped when his extraordinary athleticism didn't make up for it.

Naseem folded as soon as he met real competition.

Roy schooled Toney and Bhop. Totally different class of fighter.

 

[DanMMAleague]

People always talk about how Jones is this freak athlete.

They forget he started training when he was 8 years old or whatever and was beat with a stick by his father to force him to train, he had hundreds of amateur and professional fights before he peaked.

Naseem Hamed is similar, no parental pressure but started at 7 and was a standout amateur.

 

[DanMMAleague]

Naseem folded as soon as he met real competition.

Roy schooled Toney and Bhop. Totally different class of fighter.

B hop was a late developer even Jones was a bit short of his prime at that point.

And it was a weird fight with very low damage.

Toney in my opinion was a great match up for Jones and obviously got thrashed.

It would have been a good test for Jones if he fought several fighters in Toney’s league with different styles but Toney stands in a league of his own skill wise as by far prime Jones toughest test on paper.

 

[wilddeuces]

Yup, in the mix, among top 5 or 10, I believe.

I would like to have seen him fight a few of the Englishmen that were doing very well in the 90's.

 

[mozfonky]

Fundamentally, and by the book? I think absolutely not. He dropped his hands so much especially after throwing a combination, backing out with his hands down. Having that left hand down got him clipped, and knocked out (Glen Johnson). You can only be unorthodox for so long until you get exposed. Same thing happened to Prince Naseem. I do not believe an unorthodox fighter can be called the GOAT. He is one of the greatest, and I grew up in a very pro RJJ household. But often times his disregard for, or not wanting to apply sound technique got him clapped when his extraordinary athleticism didn't make up for it.

I think his biggest issue was his chin, he rarely got hit like that, one thing mayweather looked to have over him was a great chin, he wasn't as good defensively or in any other way but when he got rapped, like he did with mosely, he dealt with it as if he'd been doing it his whole life, very impressive for a fighter to have those kinds of instincts because they are insttincts when you're out on you're feet. Roy had a long run, he also deserves credit for coming in condition each and every time, even great fighters let down in training sometimes and get beat because of it, he and mayweather have that over most great champs, unusually disciplined which is always harder the older fighters get.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Ain't got nothing on mcgregor

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

I think his biggest issue was his chin, he rarely got hit like that, one thing mayweather looked to have over him was a great chin, he wasn't as good defensively or in any other way but when he got rapped, like he did with mosely, he dealt with it as if he'd been doing it his whole life, very impressive for a fighter to have those kinds of instincts because they are insttincts when you're out on you're feet. Roy had a long run, he also deserves credit for coming in condition each and every time, even great fighters let down in training sometimes and get beat because of it, he and mayweather have that over most great champs, unusually disciplined which is always harder the older fighters get.

Roy was in amazing shape!! He had an amazing run, and I would like to think of myself as a fan of his for sure. He deserves all the credit. Who am I to voice an opinion on what he did or didn't do wrong? lol. I just question giving him GOAT status when he wasn't "technical" or "correct" in the traditional "textbook" sense of boxing. Hands down when stepping out, not returning the fists back to chin level after punches, tripling up the left hook. However, he is RJJ. Who can deny that? I wouldn't lol. He's just not GOAT to me. My favorite boxer of all time is Leonard, for my own reasons. I respect the position on Roy Jones though. lol

 

[mozfonky]

to be honest, i don't know where to place him, no great fighter had a career like that, was it weak comp? his own excellence? so hard to say. I maybe wouldn't put him in the top fifty because I've been watching great fighters sacrifice so much to get wins, some people just don't get this but how do you put roy above so many guys who actually had to fight like hell to get the big wins, you got guys like Ali, Robinson,Leonard etc.., who went through some hellish fights, then you got this guy who bangs up on clueless contenders, I just don't know. I love roy, dude was the best blend of speed and power ever. The technical shortcomings don't bother me as much as what happened once he took a shot and got kayoed. It traumatized him so bad that he got kayoed in the very next fight after looking like a zombie for 9 rounds. I don't think it was any kind of matter of lack of guts or heart, I'm sure he had plenty, but those kinds of kayoes can scar and ruin a man and they did. No one to compare him to really, Ali, Leonard, Louis, robinson,Hagler, they all had tough fights, losses, even kayo losses and came back to become champions again. Just can't help but wonder what would have happened if Roy had gotten tagged like that at 24 instead of 34, would there ever have been a Roy Jones?

 

[Mysterio]

to be honest, i don't know where to place him, no great fighter had a career like that, was it weak comp? his own excellence? so hard to say. I maybe wouldn't put him in the top fifty because I've been watching great fighters sacrifice so much to get wins, some people just don't get this but how do you put roy above so many guys who actually had to fight like hell to get the big wins, you got guys like Ali, Robinson,Leonard etc.., who went through some hellish fights, then you got this guy who bangs up on clueless contenders, I just don't know. I love roy, dude was the best blend of speed and power ever. The technical shortcomings don't bother me as much as what happened once he took a shot and got kayoed. It traumatized him so bad that he got kayoed in the very next fight after looking like a zombie for 9 rounds. I don't think it was any kind of matter of lack of guts or heart, I'm sure he had plenty, but those kinds of kayoes can scar and ruin a man and they did. No one to compare him to really, Ali, Leonard, Louis, robinson,Hagler, they all had tough fights, losses, even kayo losses and came back to become champions again. Just can't help but wonder what would have happened if Roy had gotten tagged like that at 24 instead of 34, would there ever have been a Roy Jones?

Roy was too damn fast to be touched at 24.

I can understand people who argue that Roy is not #1 based on accomplishments, but if all sizes were equal, I would have my money on a prime Roy in a tournament of all the greats.

 

[mozfonky]

he got hit a few times, as i mentioned, toney and sosa hit him. the sosa fight was really fascinating, the kind of opponent who don't care about your rep, he only cares about giving you hell and he did,roy got him in trouble and it was stopped prematurely. also, griffith was hitting him with a lot of cledan left hooks but they looked to be the slapping variety rather than real punches. Delvalle floored him and when he was hurt, he looked just like he did years later, as if he was completely out, watch the sosa fight. the punch landed by tarver I believe he didn't see it, he said it too, he had his glove up blocking his own view, but, I also believe he lost his legs and couldn't move like he used to, happens to all of them. Point is though, even he says a punch like that could have happened at any point, i just wonder if it happened at 18, would he have had the resilience to come back? or would he have ended up the way he did in the glenn johnson fight. if the latter,no one would even talk about him todaqy

 

[Philtard]

Boxing skills wise? Come on kidda - wise up.

I saw your first post and whilst you are kinda correct with your purposely inflammatory response he made those bums looks like absolute shit.

Absolute shit. Man was in the matrix. He blue pilled me. And I don't care. Think he would give anyone at 160 plus the fight of their lives.

Also can't be touched is the best rap song of all time. ALL TIME. PLUS HIS HIGHLIGHT REEL AND CAN'T BE TOUCHED PLAYING IS THE BEST THING CREATED.

ALSO YOU CAN SHUT UP

 

[listrahtes]

My favorite boxer of all time is Leonard, for my own reasons.

The greatest fight of all time imo Leonard vs Duran. I watched that the first time just a year ago and I cant remember a fight were I got that emotional attached to.

A prime lightweight Roberto Duran is for me the best fighter of all time period. Relentless style truly meant to fight, unbreakable mental strenght and superiority over anyone, world class technical skills that many did not see because of what a brutal pressure fighter he was. Most intelligent ring iq ever and best infighter ever.

I can also relate to Leonard. He would have defeated near every other fighter in history that night. He may have been a slickster but when it counted he fought against Duran with everything he had and made it a battle for the ages.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

The greatest fight of all time imo Leonard vs Duran. I watched that the first time just a year ago and I cant remember a fight were I got that emotional attached to.

A prime lightweight Roberto Duran is for me the best fighter of all time period. Relentless style truly meant to fight, unbreakable mental strenght and superiority over anyone, world class technical skills that many did not see because of what a brutal pressure fighter he was. Most intelligent ring iq ever and best infighter ever.

I can also relate to Leonard. He would have defeated near every other fighter in history that night. He may have been a slickster but when it counted he fought against Duran with everything he had and made it a battle for the ages.

The Brawl in Montreal was epic, and is the primary reason Leonard is my favorite fighter of all time. He had heart to put it all out on the line that way, and fight Duran's fight. Duran was nothing short of incredible, and he believed in himself when others didn't. He had a long career, and fought everyone. He showed what it is like to be a true fighter, and how to adapt to adversity. He was every man's fighter. He came from nothing to success, and when he got it he gave so freely of himself. Duran is in my top 5 perhaps even interchangeable with Leonard. lol

 

[HardasNAILZ]

I saw your first post and whilst you are kinda correct with your purposely inflammatory response he made those bums looks like absolute shit.

Absolute shit. Man was in the matrix. He blue pilled me. And I don't care. Think he would give anyone at 160 plus the fight of their lives.

Also can't be touched is the best rap song of all time. ALL TIME. PLUS HIS HIGHLIGHT REEL AND CAN'T BE TOUCHED PLAYING IS THE BEST THING CREATED.

ALSO YOU CAN SHUT UP

Ha ha ha ha!! Yeah fair enough mate

 

[treelo]

He was someone with such skill that Hopkins and Toney could not get near him, although it needs noting that Toney was starting to fight fat at the weight and looked in terrible shape to fight a mover, if he had of come in the same shape he fought Nunn, it would have been closer, but i am under no illusion he would have beaten Jones, it would have been more competetive.

The big thing with Jones for me is that he lacks a real world class resume, and while i have no doubt he could and probably would have beaten a lot of great fighters if they had been around, they simply weren't when it was his time to shine.

I would favour a prime Jones over anyone at MW ever, and give him a good shot at any LHW also, but the fact is he beat Hopkins and Toney, there are other fighters with better resumes than that.

 

[Brock-B-level-Athlete]

 

[treelo]

well you may win the biggest fuckwit award of all time, by posting a gif from Roy Jones about 20 years after his prime

 

[mozfonky]

his point stands though, sugar ray robinson fought until he was 45 and he never went out like that, never. In fact he had a faux knockdown against joey archer(he says it was a balance shot and it looked it to me) and decided that was it, it didnt take no bludgeonings to usurp his champions pride.

 

[Brock-B-level-Athlete]

well you may win the biggest fuckwit award of all time, by posting a gif from Roy Jones about 20 years after his prime

I think in a modern training camp, Roy Jones Jr. would have been one of the best.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

his point stands though, sugar ray robinson fought until he was 45 and he never went out like that, never. In fact he had a faux knockdown against joey archer(he says it was a balance shot and it looked it to me) and decided that was it, it didnt take no bludgeonings to usurp his champions pride.

You make a good point, except thread is about prime RJJ.