Prime Lennox vs Prime Tyson

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

There were times when Lennox wasn't tying him up and Mike still didn't punch inside. When Mike was young, he'd throw those body shots, uppercuts and hooks in close like that. What is surprising though is that Lennox could stay far enough away from Mike even with his slower foot speed. Mike did plenty of charging and lennox either smothered him or stepped back, giving Mike nothing to hit. I think Mike may have landed one decent punch the whole fight. Most of his big punches missed by a mile. He was still capable of the kayo in those years, he had a true one punch kayo against botha and had busted Golota's face, Lewis was just to smart to get hit.

There were times that he could've let his hands go more on the inside but they were few and far between. Lewis consistently had an answer for him rushing in and lunging with hooks and power shots. I'm not surprised that Lewis was able to handle him like that. He's so much rangier that Mike's speed just wasn't as significant of a factor. Mike was giving up way too much height & reach to a fighter that actually knows how to use it. Lewis was also considerably stronger. He pushed Mike around with ease. Shoved him out of the pocket many times. The ref could've called that but he allowed it to be a physical fight.

 

[djacobox372]

Yeah I agree with all of this. Lewis is bad stylistically for Tyson and as you say, inconsistent. He’d beat him more often than not, I’d be fairly confident in that

I see it the opposite, Tyson is bad stylistically for Lewis.

 

[mozfonky]

There were times that he could've let his hands go more on the inside but they were few and far between. Lewis consistently had an answer for him rushing in and lunging with hooks and power shots. I'm not surprised that Lewis was able to handle him like that. He's so much rangier that Mike's speed just wasn't as significant of a factor. Mike was giving up way too much height & reach to a fighter that actually knows how to use it. Lewis was also considerably stronger. He pushed Mike around with ease. Shoved him out of the pocket many times. The ref could've called that but he allowed it to be a physical fight.

ya, how much of that would apply to a peak fight for both though? Lewis was definitly closer to his peak than mike was but Mike still had his speed for a couple rounds and he could do nothing.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

ya, how much of that would apply to a peak fight for both though? Lewis was definitly closer to his peak than mike was but Mike still had his speed for a couple rounds and he could do nothing.

I think much of what we saw would apply to a fight between both at their peaks. Only difference is it'd be much more competitive. Lewis would likely get it done more often than not. He'd take over as the fight progressed, like he did in their 2002 fight, and by the second half he'd be in control. Both were past prime, and Mike was further from his, but Mike literally had no answers for Lewis. None. That's a strategic & IQ problem, a complete inability to adjust, not a physical or athletic performance issue.

 

[mozfonky]

I think much of what we saw would apply to a fight between both at their peaks. Only difference is it'd be much more competitive. Lewis would likely get it done more often than not. He'd take over as the fight progressed, like he did in their 2002 fight, and by the second half he'd be in control. Both were past prime, and Mike was further from his, but Mike literally had no answers for Lewis. None. That's a strategic & IQ problem, a complete inability to adjust, not a physical or athletic performance issue.

so, your opinion, Lennox was greater? The tyson that fought Holmes, Biggs, thomas and tubbs would lose like this?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

so, your opinion, Lennox was greater? The tyson that fought Holmes, Biggs, thomas and tubbs would lose like this?

Mike would start fast and do well early but my opinion is that Lewis would adjust to it, and Mike would struggle to make key counter adjustments, which would ultimately cost him the fight. I think Lewis was the better fighter overall but in the P4P sense Mike was greater.

 

[StopDucking]

I see it the opposite, Tyson is bad stylistically for Lewis.

How? Lewis has more tricks to neutralize Tyson's game than the other way around.

Unlike other big men, Lewis doesn't punch tall: he drops down and punches straight at Tyson's chin. It forces Tyson to get even lower to slip his punches, which tires him out.

If Tyson does slip his punch, Lewis would follow up with an uppercut, which is the hardest punch to defend against for a peek-a-boo fighter. He's basically slipping into the uppercut.

Lewis doesn't retract his jab all the way like a rookie. He retracts it halfway or a third of the way and fires it again. It makes his barrage of jabs extremely hard to dodge.

If Tyson manages to get inside, he ties him up and leans on him or pushes him far away. Contrary to popular belief, Tyson isn't good on the inside, he's only good at midrange. And Lewis never allows him to stay at midrange.

 

[mozfonky]

Tyson would always have a small chance at a one punch kayo though.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Tyson would always have a small chance at a one punch kayo though.

That's why I don't think either man would win all of their fights in a trilogy. Lewis probably wins 2 out of 3. If Lewis had a granite chin then I could see him potentially winning 3 out of 3 but he doesn't.

 

[mozfonky]

That's why I don't think either man would win all of their fights in a trilogy. Lewis probably wins 2 out of 3. If Lewis had a granite chin then I could see him potentially winning 3 out of 3 but he doesn't.

Yup, he had two fights where he basically was wiped out with one punch. He's vulnerable for sure. I've seen him take some halfway decent shots too but if he gets hit with Mike's best punch he's not even gonna stagger, he'll collapse.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Yup, he had two fights where he basically was wiped out with one punch. He's vulnerable for sure. I've seen him take some halfway decent shots too but if he gets hit with Mike's best punch he's not even gonna stagger, he'll collapse.

Agreed

 

[nonoob]

Exactly. As you can see below.


Here he walks Mike into a big uppercut, establishes head control, and then pushes him off like he's nothing. Just one example of Lewis utilizing his superior physicality, control & timing to neutralize Mike's tactics.

Lennox was a great physical specimen with a ton of class, definite champion material. Noticed Mike not locking eyes with Lennox, his earlier staredowns were All intense and intimidating...but those days were long over by that fight.

 

[mozfonky]

Lennox was a great physical specimen with a ton of class, definite champion material. Noticed Mike not locking eyes with Lennox, his earlier staredowns were All intense and intimidating...but those days were long over by that fight.

I don't think Mike really thought he could win at that point. As hard as it is to believe, he had money problems and somehow was broke and needed a big money fight, in fact, he pled for a rematch right after when his performance didn't justify it. Somehow, he let all the hangers on bleed him and leave him in debt by the time his career was over.

 

[5acrossYOeye]

What's Tyson's marquee win in his prime?

The ancient version of Holmes? The one who lost to light heavyweight Michael Spinks twice and then wad fed to Tyson?

Light heavyweight Michael Spinks?

Razor Ruddock who beat who exactly?

Gatekeeper Pinklon Thomas?

Tyson was the best in a mediocre division, which isn't his fault because he beat the guys in front of him.

 

[mozfonky]

What's Tyson's marquee win in his prime?

The ancient version of Holmes? The one who lost to light heavyweight Michael Spinks twice and then wad fed to Tyson?

Light heavyweight Michael Spinks?

Razor Ruddock who beat who exactly?

Gatekeeper Pinklon Thomas?

Tyson was the best in a mediocre division, which isn't his fault because he beat the guys in front of him.

Most people would say Spinks but I never expected Spinks to put up a fight, he was too small and too slow. Mike did the division good in the mid-80's. There were lots of overweight/poorly conditioned heavyweights passing around the titles that Holmes didn't hold. It was called "the lost generation". Mike came and cleaned it up, fought all comers for a few years. What was his best win? I don't know, I think any fight where he didn't just rely on his power and was extended, was a better fight for him where he showed more of his stuff. Tucker, Thomas, Biggs and even Bruno (where most people think he started to unravel stylistically). Not the fights where he just clobbered guys early. He gets shorted for some of his performances, the second Ruddock fight may have been his last real performance as a true professional. Grinded out a win and took some punishment against a big guy who wouldn't fold the first time he was hit. Post prison, more or less,we were all sold a bill of goods. Still powerful enough to take out some guys but was dq'd a couple times, beat down several times, always dangerous but not really a true pro anymore.

 

[treelo]

i think a big factor that should into play when thinking about this is the mentality of Lewis, he was an arrogant son of a bitch and never entered a fight scared of anyone, something which a lot of Tyson opponents did

Lewis was a fighter that couldnt be intimidated by anyone or anything, and Tyson realised this when they did the press conference for the fight, and knew what was coming

Even back in his prime in the 80's, he relied so much on the fear factor and his opponents being scared, and while that wasnt why he won so many fights, he was also an excellent fighter back then, his lifestyle really killed his career(much like another favourite Bowe).

I think the general feeling is that Tyson was at his very best against Spinks, who was absolutely petrified in the ring, i think a better fight to judge a Lewis v Tyson fight back then would have been Tyson v Tucker, he was a big tall rangey guy who could box well, he just didnt have enough pop to deter Tyson and had drug issues by all accounts

 

[mozfonky]

i think a big factor that should into play when thinking about this is the mentality of Lewis, he was an arrogant son of a bitch and never entered a fight scared of anyone, something which a lot of Tyson opponents did

Lewis was a fighter that couldnt be intimidated by anyone or anything, and Tyson realised this when they did the press conference for the fight, and knew what was coming

Even back in his prime in the 80's, he relied so much on the fear factor and his opponents being scared, and while that wasnt why he won so many fights, he was also an excellent fighter back then, his lifestyle really killed his career(much like another favourite Bowe).

I think the general feeling is that Tyson was at his very best against Spinks, who was absolutely petrified in the ring, i think a better fight to judge a Lewis v Tyson fight back then would have been Tyson v Tucker, he was a big tall rangey guy who could box well, he just didnt have enough pop to deter Tyson and had drug issues by all accounts

yup, Lewis was irritatingly arrogant. Even though he was stopped twice it didn't change his attitude. That same arrogance was the key to his entire career.

 

[treelo]

yup, Lewis was irritatingly arrogant. Even though he was stopped twice it didn't change his attitude. That same arrogance was the key to his entire career.

ive never seen a fighter knocked out like he has been, and just dismiss it, very mentally strong fighter

i quite liked it back in the day but what an annoying cunt he must have been to people who werent fans of his

 

[mozfonky]

ive never seen a fighter knocked out like he has been, and just dismiss it, very mentally strong fighter

i quite liked it back in the day but what an annoying cunt he must have been to people who werent fans of his

hell ya, i've never liked him, kinda like holmes though, who i don't like, just have to accept his greatness.

 

[burningspear]

Tyson would always have a small chance at a one punch kayo though.

Dont let em beat you down, small chance lol