• Xenforo Cloud is upgrading us to version 2.3.8 on Monday February 16th, 2026 at 12:00 AM PST. Expect a temporary downtime during this process. More info here

prime Lebron > prime Kobe

Status
Not open for further replies.
And if Pistol Pete was black and didn't kill himself in a car accident he would have averaged 80ppg. :rolleyes:

Stupid Laker fan hypotheticals are stupid, especially when they troll with the implication that anyone other than Jordan is the GOAT.

i was pointing out that if statements are meaningless. Anyways take it from someone who knows a lot more about basketball than you guys (phil jackson) - the GOAT has much more bball skills than Jordan.
 
i was pointing out that if statements are meaningless. Anyways take it from someone who knows a lot more about basketball than you guys (phil jackson) - the GOAT has much more bball skills than Jordan.
Greatest skill set = / = GOAT

I've made it clear numerous times that I think Kobe is probably the most individually skilled player I've ever watched. Fancy that, I think like Phil. Good to know.

Doesn't make Kobe GOAT. There's a lot more to winning than that.
 
Greatest skill set = / = GOAT

I've made it clear numerous times that I think Kobe is probably the most individually skilled player I've ever watched. Fancy that, I think like Phil. Good to know.

Doesn't make Kobe GOAT. There's a lot more to winning than that.

Then we disagree on the criteria for GOAT i guess. i always look at it from the "most skilled" perspective.
 
That's because the simplest efficiency ratings like PER favor scoring above all else. Scoring rebounders tend to yield the most inflated PER above their actual skill/impact on the game; so workhorse double-double players like Boozer tend to be the most overvalued by PER. However, IMO, I've always loved PER for highlighting this group because there is no group of players that is as chronically underappreciated and undervalued by casual fans who have never played organized competitive basketball. Bad rebounding, poor shooting, and turnovers lose games. Period. The Carlos Boozer's and Elton Brand's of the world never get their due. Thank God David Lee finally got some All-Star props this year. The greatest player who isn't afforded his due respect in the grand scheme of the basketball canon who is redeemed by the PER is Kevin Garnett.

A few more objections to your point:
(1) Comparing career PER's of inactive players (Pippen, Russell) to an active guy whose numbers aren't diminished by the inferior production of his later years is flawed.
(2) Jason Kidd shoots poorly and outside of his peak years never contributed much more than 10ppg. The PER reflects this. It's a sobering reminder that excellence in one thing doesn't equal excellence in all things.
(3) Russell was a defensive specialist, and this group is easily the most undervalued by PER. Furthermore, they didn't count blocks or steals during his career, so he's an incontrovertibly inadmissible example to contrast to Boozer. Some of the older analysts who watched games courtside during Russell's prime estimate that he might have averaged as many as 10-15 blocks per game. Counting numbers like that he unquestionably would have surpassed Boozer, and that's with the crippling disadvantage of defensive specialism (for which traditional stats don't reflect true performance).


Kobe is a scorer, and an above average rebounder (especially for a guard who also tend to get more assists, steals, and shoot a higher FT% that bolster their PER). Unlike the defensive specialists of the world, he has no real gripe with the PER that has LeBron shitting all over him.

Quality post.
 
We get it you dont like Durant bruh lol.

Everybody who knows basketball can tell you that Durant is a better scorer than Kobe and is a much tougher matchup for opposing defenders.

Kobe has/had a wider array of moves and shots, but you cant teach 6'11 with a 7'6 wingspan with a smooth jumpshot like he has. Durant may not be the total package but he is a better scorer than Kobe.

If you gave Durant 30 shots a game he would average 45 points a game. He's also 90% from the FT line.

I actually like Durant. I just hate people that over hype him to a huge degree. I'm just calling it like I see it. Get back to me when Durant scorers 81 or 62 points in 3 quarters out scoring entire Mavs team single handley. Kobe had 4 straight 50 point games. Kobe Bryant hit 12 three-point field goals in a January 2003 game against the Seattle SuperSonics, giving him the record for most three-pointers in one game. Kobe would finish the game with 45 points.
The record has recently been tied by Donyell Marshall, who also hit 12 three-pointers in one game while playing for the Toronto Raptors in 2005. Has Durant done that? NO... Yeah I would hope Durant better than Kobe NOW. Kobe is 34 years old and is 60% what he used to be in his 20's. Talking peak and prime. And is on downside of his career. I think he retires next season. Bad comparison... Prime Kobe >>> Prime Durant. Deal with it.
 
Last edited:
NPr5f.gif
 
Greatest skill set = / = GOAT

I've made it clear numerous times that I think Kobe is probably the most individually skilled player I've ever watched. Fancy that, I think like Phil. Good to know.

Doesn't make Kobe GOAT. There's a lot more to winning than that.

MJ is quite clearly the GOAT without question. Kobe is closet player we have ever seen to MJ. Kobe is more skilled and had wider arsenal of offensive moves in my opinion. Kobe better 3 point shooter, footwork, post, mid range, longevity, FT% shooter. Jordan was more athletic, defender(defense), scorer, playmaker, better 1st step, dunker, more efficient, clutch, took less degree of difficultly shot, higher IQ, and better winner 6 straight championships with 6 Finals MVP's. I hope that sums it up. I love Kobe but MJ on another level.
 
Last edited:
MJ is quite clearly the GOAT without question. Kobe is closet player we have ever seen to MJ. Kobe is more skilled and had wider arsenal of offensive moves in my opinion. Kobe better 3 point shooter, footwork, post, mid range, FT% shooter. Jordan was more athletic, scorer, better 1st step, dunker, more efficient, clutch, took less degree of difficultly shot, higher IQ, and better winner 6 straight champions with 6FMVP. I hope that sums it up. I love Kobe but MJ on another level.
It's a highly debatable discussion anyway.

I think Kobe just acquired Wizards Jordan's skillset earlier in his career: the back-to-the-basket footwork; the seamless incorporation of half spins, jab steps, and pump fakes into perimeter offense; the fadeaway and floating jump shot ability; that sort of thing. However, Kobe has never been as great as Jordan at finishing at the basket with his weak hand. He's never been as skillful on the baseline. He's never been as dangerous in the open floor. And as great as he is with every type of fake, he's never been as good at shaking up defenders with head, shoulder or hip fakes. He's appears to me to be inferior ballhandler.
Then we disagree on the criteria for GOAT i guess. i always look at it from the "most skilled" perspective.
Well, now you're NOT thinking like Phil, because he's made it clear a million times that Jordan is the greatest basketball player he's ever coached or seen.

Jordan just did so many other things better, and so many things that they both do exceptionally he did better. Calling Kobe the GOAT is laughable. When all is said and done Kobe will be in the debate of his life for claim to the greatest Laker of all time: Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, Wilt.

Good luck, Kobe.
 
It's a highly debatable discussion anyway.

J When all is said and done Kobe will be in the debate of his life for claim to the greatest Laker of all time: Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, Wilt.

Good luck, Kobe.

wilt not on that list. x him off early. GOAT's handles are much better than jordan's.
 
Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, Wilt.

Good luck, Kobe.

In terms of career as a Laker...

Kareem > Magic > Shaq > West > Wilt > Baylor > Worthy > Horry > Pau > Fisher > then possibly Colby. Very close between him, Lamar Odom, and Gail Goodrich.
 
2006-2008 Kobe was as good as anyone who ever played.


What bugs me about these arguments is that people tend to overvalue versatility. Lebron isn't a better player than Shaq, just because he can do more things than him.
 
Then we disagree on the criteria for GOAT i guess. i always look at it from the "most skilled" perspective.

Skills does not = goat

Sabonis, Divac, Smits, M.Gasol
just to name a few = more skilled centers than Shaq.
Does this put them higher than Shaq on the list of all time greatest center?
No
 
2006-2008 Kobe was as good as anyone who ever played.

What bugs me about these arguments is that people tend to overvalue versatility. Lebron isn't a better player than Shaq, just because he can do more things than him.
Waiting for Palis to mention that 2006-2008 Kobe didn't win shit.
 
Skills does not = goat

Sabonis, Divac, Smits, M.Gasol
just to name a few = more skilled centers than Shaq.
Does this put them higher than Shaq on the list of all time greatest center?
No

nah, most skilled to me = GOAT. Jordan and GOAT have pretty much the same skill set, moves, array of shots, etc so you can directly compare their respective games. Shaq is a totally diff player than all of those guys mentioned so its tougher to compare, but I agree Shaq was better than them at basketball despite being less skilled.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top